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if you want a beefy light for IS, wolfhound is a good one.
if you want an ECM light for IS, Raven 3L has lots of applications from support to sniping with long range weaponry.
if you want something interesting and tanky, Urbie can rotate its torso 360 degrees, meaning you can shoot behind you and run away at the same time. and talk about a torso twist defense, you can just spin your torso as you run away as well! xD
fast lights will be either locust or commando, the locust 1V has a nice energy cooldown coupled with a laser duration that, makes using something like a large pulse or a single ER large quite fun, can also mount MGs for the brave, Commando is also quick and has an ECM variant, can pack SRM or MRM and use them to great effect.
on the clan side, arctic cheetah is pretty reliable with lots of decent builds, Pirahna are pretty much good for 1 or 2 things, all of em dangerous jobs.
kit fox is a bit slower but can pack a wider array of weapons, as well as ECM or 3 AMS if thats your thing.
the Jenner IIC is a great light on the clan side of things, the IS jenner is decent too but the IIC series can do so much more. decent speed, packs a great chunk of fire power for a light.
Those two are mutually exclusive. If you want to take a light mech into scouting then your only option is the Wolfhound, but the Wolfhound is not a Harasser mech. Its a flank guard / light hunter.
Scouting you want to use either Assassins or Bushwackers (or Arctic Wolf and Stormcrows)
Firepower and harasser is also sort of mutually exclusive. Best you can hope for is 30 damage alpha and limited duration 10dps on a harassing mech.
If you want serious firepower on a light mech then you have a choice of Kit Fox, Cougar and Adder, as well as Wolfhound, Urbanmech and Panther for the IS.
If you want a harasser then your choices are Piranha and Locust. Everything else is 2nd rate to these two and have their pro's and cons.
A compromise between the two is the Wolfhound, Osiris and Raven for the IS and the sort of the Cheetah for Clan.
Cheetah is a bit on the meh side, in my opinion. It used to be the choice for Clans, because they didn't have anything else, but with merely 7t of space for weapons it always had heat issues.
Wolfhound is a tank and in comparison with the Osiris and the Raven the clear winner. The Raven is the most versatile, but also the weakest of the 3.
Given how cheap they are... get a Locust 3M[mwo.smurfy-net.de]. Play around with it for a while, see if you like it.
The 3M has a nice energy cooldown quirk, which makes it superior to the 1E in my opinion, and makes it the best option unless you want to get the Hero. Load it up either with Medium lasers or Small Pulse Lasers...
Once you made the money back for buying it and the engine for it... you can still decide if you want to go with a Wolfhound.
Although the Wolfhound is a light mech you can take into scouting, but its not as good as harasser.
What about the Firestarter?
I've seen a lot of people using Commandos and Spiders for harassment too. So they are basically 2nd rate for this, or do they have another job actually?
And where do you see Mist Lynx and Jenner?
I don't like the Firestarter much.
It is to big and doesn't have good quirks and 2 more energy hardpoints on a 'quirkless' mech (not really quirkless) isn't gonna make me recommend it to anyone compared to better mechs. You can only group 6 medium lasers without ghostheat anyway, and if you just wanted to boat 6 medium lasers then i have a Wolfhound or Osiris for you :)
The Hero versions of the Firestarter are interesting and fun to play with MGs... but the cbill versions? Meh. There are mechs that do the job better.
Flamers being a waste of effort, in my opinion, in this game, due to their inability to shut anyone down that doesn't screw up or doesn't pay attention, makes the quirks this mech has sort of pointless. Then again, if you want a Flamer mech.. this is the mech for you.
Used to be the Firestarter was held as the best IS light mech, due to its access to jump jets, , but even back then i felt the Spider was the better choice. Heck, honestly even back then i preferred a Raven 4X to the Firestarter, despite the Raven having less damage. Something about the Firestarter, the way the cockpit looks and it moves.. it just never felt right. But that is just me and a reason i never really recommend it. I have a similar "this mech doesn't suit me" dislike for the Cheetah, to be honest.
These days, the only Cbill variant i could recommend you is the Firestarter H. 25% Machine Gun ROF, 2 MGs and 6 Energy hardpoints make the H into a fearsome light hunter.
Problem with it is largely that a lot of its firepower is in its arms and the Arms tend to be shot off a lot since its a humanoid mech. That is why i would go Osiris over Firestarter. Similarish loadouts, but doesn't loose the arms as easily.
Spider 5V is my favorite light mech. Its just super fun to play, but its a niche mech. The rescaling of the mechs also hurt the spider a lot. Spiders, in my opinion, are an aficionado mech. Its something you get after you confirmed for yourself that you like playing light mechs and want to challenge yourself, while having a lot of fun. The 5V has long held the position of "worst mech in MWO" and while i disagree with that, (the Panther 10P is the worst mech), Spider is just a lot of fun, but again.. other mechs do the job better.
Commando, in comparison to the Locust just doesn't have the firepower. Commando reaches about 20 to 25 damage alpha, but it does so with a mix of Lasers and Missiles. Its a fun mech to play, but in comparison with the Locust the Command just doesn't have the pin point damage the Locust does.
Jenner's glory days are long, long past. Its a sad, sad shadow of itself with a CT the size of the enterprise. I couldn't recommend it even as a mech to just pilot for fun.
Jenner suffered so much in the rescaling, much like the Spider, but unlike the Spider the Jenners hitboxes and body shape is just unfortunate.
Mist Lynx... meh.
.... oh i should say a bit more? Mist Lynx has like 1 good loadout and thats the 4 ER small + all the MGs it can fit. And the problem with that loadout is that all your guns are in your arms and you loose those arms very, very quickly. Light pilots will take your arms before they kill you. Its slower than the Cheetah and the Cheetah can have 6MGs plus ECM... Mist Lynx has 8 MGs 4 ER smalls, but no ECM.
It used to be complete trash, these days its just "meh".
If you get the Hero you can run a Quad SRM4, dual or triple ER Micro laser build and get close to 40 alpha damage, for that Commando feeling, if you miss that. But overall you probably end up with 8MGs plus ER smalls. The speed of the mech isn't good enough for a harasser role... and you'll end up playing a vulture, provided you can keep your weapons until the end of the match. The weakness of all weapons in the arms can lead to unsatisfying matches in which you get hit by dual gauss or something and loose half your weaponry. The current meat with the big guys and their big spike alphas.. it just isn't that much fun.
Mist Lynx is when you are done playing the top of the line mechs, want to challenge yourself a bit and have fun with it. It can be a fun mech, but its a mixed bag.. sometimes its great, sometimes its just a waste of time.
As all 35 light mechs are it is very huge for a light. Wolfhound has extra armor to compensate for this, Firestarters are forced to be extra careful.
Spiders and Commandos are bigger than locust and are easier to hit, their firepower is even worse than that of good Locust variants (tho only exception is TDK). Both Spiders and Commandos have some durability quirks and can be pretty hard to kill if the enemy is not a very good shot. I own two Commando variants and they are very fun to play (and hard), being pretty much a Locust with no mid-range option and worse cockpit. Spiders are meh IMO as these are hardpoint starved.
Mist Lynx is a mech of one variant. There is a Myst Lynx G and all others are bad Lynxes. It used to be THE MG backstabber of the Clans back then, slow, but tiny and with good vertical mobility. It has HUGE amount of JJs you can not remove and its free tonnage is very low. For ECM you need to say goodbye to good half of your firepower. It used to be somewhat overperformed by MG-cheetah (which can have 6xMGs + ECM + some lasers + better speed). Now there is a Piranha, which is even smaller, faster, more agile than Lynx and has much higher firepower which is mostly torso mounted. Now it is obsolete IMO.
Jenner has "35t problem" it is very big, has terrible hitboxes, bad cockpit location and is not very durable. I would take Osiris or Javelin over it if want comparable firepower+JJs, but with better mobility, smaller hitboxes and being harder to hit/kill.
I believe that most IS 35t mechs (and some Clan ones) have a better 30t equivalent, which can do the same job, while being smaller and easier to pilot. Exceptions are 35t mechs that are basically mediums (Adder, Cougar, Wolfhound).
the hero firestarters are great for ripping off minimal back armor and coring out components. the S variant has effectively been replaced by the wolfhound though it can still do the same job roughly. the K is the only noteworthy one for non heros imo, because its enregy range stacks with its flamer range, giving you up to 121m flamers, which is just funny.
First of all, thank you for your very in depth explanation. I understand your point on the Piranha perfectly, but I think you kind of didn't really check out the Lynx much. At least it seems that way because you completely ignored the areas where it is completely superior.
The Mist Lynx G and the "bad" Lynxes is a pretty bold statement, considering we are talking about 25t mechs who have nearly twice as much armor as the Piranha on the top half. Sure, less weapon hardpoints, but none the less an omnipodded Lynx can have 2 missile and 3 energy hadpoints, an ECM (Piranha not) and still maintaining far superior armor. In fact, it has more armor than a Firestarter and Arctic Cheetah on RA, LA, RT (RT not if omnipodded from Lynx G) and LT and only on CT and legs less... We are literally approaching Wolhound tier armor there. And we are talking about mechs with far bigger hitboxes here.
You also didn't cosider how constraining the Piranhas approach is. It has to be nearly point blank to be effective, has no vertical capabilies and on difficult terrain and torso mounted weapons mean problems with difficult firing angles. Sure, it can be outfitted with skirmishing weaponry, but in this case I see no reason to pick it over a Locust if you are going for med lasers anyway...
We are also talking about a far slower mech. The Lynx is stuck with 113kph, you can push it to 120 with the Speed Tweak Skill nodes, but that requires a serious investment into the movement tree.
Where as the Piranha is an Omnimech. The only thing the Lynx has going for it in comparison is the Jump jets and their use is arguable, once you learned to pilot a Locust well, you pretty much know all foot routes and jump jets become less vital.
The Piranha will run 145kph with the same podspace available than the Lynx, which runs 30kph slower, and unlike the Lynx you could in theory drop in speed for more weaponry.
It doesn't have to be. Nothing forces you to run the MG variant of the Piranha, and even that you can fit with light MGs.
That is not an issue for a light pilot running 145kph. The Locust is the best light mech in the game for a reason.. and it comes without jump jets. The Piranha can do everything the Locust can, but missiles (but noboy pilots the missile Locust anyway).
The reason to pick a Piranha over a Locust is the same reason you would pick a Lynx over a Locust... you do that because you want to stick to Clan tech or want it for your faction warfare deck or something like that.
The Locust is the undisputed king of light mechs, and once you learned to pilot a Locust (or a Flea), you can pilot any light mech without JJs.
It isn't a condemnation of the Lynx. It can be a fun mech... but if you have to choose between a Lynx and a Piranha.. take the Piranha. The Lynx suffers badly by its lack of speed. The role it should occupy lives on speed, which it doesn't have any cannot have. Jump Jets do not make up for the lack of speed.
Also, do you kind of hate 3d manouvering? Otherwise I don't see how you can ignore the benefits of aerial escapes and flanking manouvers. On terrain heavy maps you can just literally jump an opponent in the back where without it you would be forced to take a 10 sec detour. Now you can try to appear smart and tell, that you can plan the backstab and position yourself, but it's a nice theory which doesn't hold agains the realities of the hectic engages. Detours will take time even if you know the roads well anyway and players have their own minds and won't stay in one place and wait for you to stab them in the back. Just because JJs require some imagination and are far harder to master than just running around doesn't make them questionable. If you are bored you can even just fly up, fire someone some missiles in the back and land behind cover again just to annoy and distract him... and thats about the least imaginative way to use them.
Which other mech has as small frame as a Commando, is nearly as well armored on side torsos and arms as the Wolfhound and has JJs to boot? And having 2 MPL and 2 SPL for damage or comparable weaponry while still retaining all the benefits is nothing to sneeze at for a 25t. The speed is literally the only downside on this mech. Otherwise it would be broken as hell.
I think telling that the Piranha is flat out better is pretty much narrow minded considering how vastly different the terrain layout on the maps is. On half the maps JJs have a distict and undeniable advantage over about 20 % more speed.
I didn't ignore it, i even adressed it when i pointed out that it doesn't have the speed. And its just untrue that it is the toughest lightmech, because any extra armor you have is eaten up by the fact that you are damn slow, and you sacrifice the most useful loadout for it as well. Yes, on paper it has more armor, but the lack of speed for the role you want to force it into... no its just not. And my Urbanmech has more armor, so that makes the Urbi the toughest light mech ;)
I have a Lynx with 22 points in the armor tree. That isn't every armor node, but its the majority of them, and i end up with 38 armor in the sidetorso, if i choose one of the non hardpoint torsos. This means i am already 2 down, and my arms are no more durable than they were before, where all my weapons sit.
If you want to armor the arms, the best option you have is 2 Ballistic Hardpoints +1 Energy hardpoint in the right arm and 1 missile hardpoints (2 if you own the hero) in the left arm. This brings it up to 47 armor points in the arms and you completely gimped yourself.
In order to armor up, as you suggest it, you completely gimp yourself. The best you can do in that loadout in a single medium pulse laser, 2 MGs and a SRM4 with artemis or dual SRM2 without artemis.
There is a reason the G with octuple MG and quad ER Smalls is the choice for the Lynx and everything else is said to be bad.
So yes, i did ignore your input on that, because its quite frankly nonsense, unless you deliberately gimp yourself for all that armor.
No, its simply not. I don't know who you get paired with, based on your Tier, but in Tier 1 matchmaking there is a world of difference between the Lynx survivability and the Locusts survivability when you try to squirrel.
Of course it will. Because those extra 30kph means you selected a means of approach that completely denied that Heavy PPC the chance to do any damage on a hit, as you could use cover to get close enough to come out of cover under the 90m minimum range.
Maybe in the lower tiers in the higher Tiers you can forget about this stuff.
No, but you are foolish if you use Jump Jets for more than actually just getting around the map. In an actual fight all you make is yourself a target. Jump Jet speed is slower than your ground speed and you are on a predictable trajectory.
Jumping in a fight ceased to be effective in Tier 3 matchmaking and it turned into suicide in Tier 2 matchmaking.
Its the same nonsense when you see some old timers show up and think their heavy/assault mech turns faster when they use jump jets.
I am always greatful for people that do use their jets, because it makes them a much easier target. For the next 20ish seconds i know they do not go anywhere and i can line up my shots.
I do use Jump Jets to get out or into a battle, if convenient, and i really love the ability to come at unexpected angles at the enemy, but using them in an actual fight, or as a squirrel between the enemy... forget it. That is akin to deliberately legging yourself to give the enemy team a fighting chance.
In my opinion they are not as great as you think they are. As i said, once you properly learned the Locust and can escape and all that, you do no longer need them. You already learned to move so you don't get hit while running away, and you already learned how to use cover to get close. Which means you don't need JJs.
My favorite mech is a Spider 5V with lots of Jump Jets.. and i absolutely love to use them, but they are a crutch and not as effective as you think they are, once you actually learned to life without them.
Even on a map like Canyons, there are a lot of ways to get up the canyons even without JJs. Knowing where they are and where you can get up but the enemy cannot, is a vital skill to learn for a light pilot, but more importantly it doesn't take a 10 seconds detour.
And quite frankly, between the two of us.. i wouldn't backstab from the canyon floor, no room to maneuver.
engagements are only hectic if you let them be. Unlike slower mechs light mechs can withdraw from the fight, get an overview of what is going on before rejoining said fight at their terms. You can literally run from one side of the firing line to the other in most cases in the duration it takes your lasers to cooldown.
Limiting yourself to a backstab role is the issue, and if you run with a gimped loadout as the one you would need to have all that armor, is exactly the kind of loadout that limits you so much that you get married to a backstabbing role and not just stick to harassing.
Nice person insult there, but no. JJs do not require some imagination, matter of fact they are pretty much the death of imagination. You are quite predictable with them.
See the thing is, thus far you argue to take a 120kph mech into a squirrel role with nothing but about 20 extra armor and jump jets.
Yes, your proposed loadout gives it more armor than a Wolfhound (due to the arms being more heavily armored - but the wolfhound has most of its weapons in the chest)
Yes, you are sort of like a smaller version of the cicada, with arguably less fire power. But that doesn't make you a good squirrel. Jump Jets or not. Best case for that loadout would be using Streaks and hunting other light mechs, instead of going squirreling with a quite frankly hideous loadout.
Not only do you gimp yourself with that loadout compared what you could be running, but also does nothing you just said sound like a Mech i would recommend to anyone for their first light mech, let alone for someone that asks for firepower.
It is flat out better, due to higher Alphas or higher sustain. Jump Jets do not change anything once you learned to play without them. That is the thing about these maps... you don't need Jump Jets.
MLX has its uses if you have one, but if your buying new stuff the PIR has a better min max goin for it. more firepower and speed, less defense and maneuverability (from lack of jets).