Clan LBX or normal AC?

[WinterMute 0101]

Hey so I was wondering, should I use normal or LBX AC? For my madcat I hVE 2 ULTRA 10s already and was wondering if I should use normal or LBX ac5s? The only difference I see is a small decrease in heat and the LBX has less ammo. Which is better?

[The Fifth Horseman]

How it breaks down:

C-LBXes fire a single burst of pellets as opposed to C-ACs and C-UACs firing a salvo. This means they will have a shorter cycle time than C-ACs and C-LBXes of the same caliber.
(and no, Smurfy's Mechlab doesn't show that in their DPS formula)

And if you're building a Mad Cat Mk II B... the typical builds use 2xUAC10+2xUAC5 or 2xUAC10+2xLB10 . Personally I prefer the latter

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by Skull Leader V1:

Which is better?

On Paper, as Fifth Horseman explained the Clan Lbx is superior... personally i prefer the normal AC, it feels like less spread and more damage. The normal Clan AC feels more satisfying to use to me, even if the Lbx technically has a smidge (a couple 100ms) less cycle time.

In actual play i don't think there is much of a difference.

[Zyrrashijn]

Also, ammo counts may differ for UACs, ACs and LBXs, but you can pull the trigger on each ton of ammo exactly as often. The damage potential per ton of ammo is the same.

[The Fifth Horseman]

Originally posted by Ishan451:

On Paper, as Fifth Horseman explained the Clan Lbx is superior... personally i prefer the normal AC, it feels like less spread and more damage. The normal Clan AC feels more satisfying to use to me, even if the Lbx technically has a smidge (a couple 100ms) less cycle time.

.11s for AC5, .22 for AC10 and .33 for AC20.

Also, let me correct myself: I just re-checked and it seems I confused C-ACs with IS-UACs there. C-ACs fire the same number of projectiles as C-UACs.

Originally posted by Skull Leader V1:

and the LBX has less ammo

The number of projectiles doesn't equal the amount of salvos - C-AC5 fires two bullets per salvo, so you get an effective 35 shots per ton.

[WinterMute 0101]

Originally posted by The Fifth Horseman:

Originally posted by Ishan451:

On Paper, as Fifth Horseman explained the Clan Lbx is superior... personally i prefer the normal AC, it feels like less spread and more damage. The normal Clan AC feels more satisfying to use to me, even if the Lbx technically has a smidge (a couple 100ms) less cycle time.

.11s for AC5, .22 for AC10 and .33 for AC20.

Also, let me correct myself: I just re-checked and it seems I confused C-ACs with IS-UACs there. C-ACs fire the same number of projectiles as C-UACs.

Originally posted by Skull Leader V1:

and the LBX has less ammo

The number of projectiles doesn't equal the amount of salvos - C-AC5 fires two bullets per salvo, so you get an effective 35 shots per ton.

so the C-AC fires 2 projectiles and has less heat?

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by Skull Leader V1:

so the C-AC fires 2 projectiles and has less heat?

Clan Lbx5 fires 5 projectiles at once, coming out of one shell (each projectile doing 1 damage). Clan-AC5 fires 2 projectiles (each projectile doing 2,5 damage), one after the other, counting each projectile separately.

And yes, Clan Lbx 2 and 5 have less heat than the regular AC.... heat is the same on the 10 and 20 version. The 10 version shoots 4 (i think) rounds on the regular AC10 and of course 10 projectiles on the Lbx. And 5 rounds on the AC20 to 20 projectiles on the LBx.


The point of impact... or cone of damage is much larger with the LBx version compared to the AC versions, even though the regular AC comes out in more of a 'stream' than a cluster. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.


Also LBxs have a longer damage fall off, but you'll likely spread all over the mech at this distance.

[Myriad]

LBX's have a higher crit chance than (U)AC's, but spread a bit more. The C-AC has lower Heat, and is good to use when you just want to hold the fire button while using other weapons, without worrying much about heat, and is more solid because it doesn't jam. The C-UAC can be double tapped, for more heat, and a chance of jamming, but effectively giving you double damage.

So in summary, it's a matter of what kind of build you're using. UAC's can rack up the heat, while potentially doubling the damage of the weapon. AC's are constant and stable. LBX's are also stable, but may spread to different components, although have a good crit chance if they get through the armor.

[Nero]

On the clan side I only ever found LBX useful when it comes to the LBX2 and you want to use like 3 or 4 of them combined with lasers. LBX does less heat than AC. Every other time you want to rock UAC.

Why anyone would want to rock LBX10 or 20 is beyond me, it spreads its damage all over. Its like going for SRM instead of Artemis SRM.

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by Myriad:

The C-AC has lower Heat

Due to balancing reason the Lbx has the lower heat, IIRC its to make up for the spread damage.

Originally posted by WitchingSnake:

Why anyone would want to rock LBX10 or 20 is beyond me, it spreads its damage all over. Its like going for SRM instead of Artemis SRM.

Ghostheat. Dual lbx 20 does not get ghostheat...

[Nero]

Since when?
So thats how they make it viable, oh well learn something new every now and then.

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by WitchingSnake:

Since when?

I want to say since ever? But it goes to show how the Devs rank the Lbx. They do not allow dual uAC20 or regular AC20 without punishment but are fine with dual LBx20.

Before they started with the whole mess of adding heatsink limit quirks dual lbx20 was the only way to get a 40 point Alpha without Ghostheat and mixing multiple weapon types.

[Nero]

HSL quirks are rare but they do exist... on like 2 mechs for the UAC20.

[Xilo The Odd]

Originally posted by Ishan451:

Originally posted by Skull Leader V1:

so the C-AC fires 2 projectiles and has less heat?

Clan Lbx5 fires 5 projectiles at once, coming out of one shell (each projectile doing 1 damage). Clan-AC5 fires 2 projectiles (each projectile doing 2,5 damage), one after the other, counting each projectile separately.

And yes, Clan Lbx 2 and 5 have less heat than the regular AC.... heat is the same on the 10 and 20 version. The 10 version shoots 4 (i think) rounds on the regular AC10 and of course 10 projectiles on the Lbx. And 5 rounds on the AC20 to 20 projectiles on the LBx.


The point of impact... or cone of damage is much larger with the LBx version compared to the AC versions, even though the regular AC comes out in more of a 'stream' than a cluster. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.


Also LBxs have a longer damage fall off, but you'll likely spread all over the mech at this distance.

i've always had a hard time deciding if its better overall to use a clan LBX 2 or to use the UAC 2 instead. i mean, you could get much more burst damage out of the UAC at the risk of a jam but for the lower calibers you easily make up for the downtime in no time, and often have other weapons paired with it. i could see the things like a 6 LBX 2 building being used to pepper targets far away for giggles but not much else. you'd either use a bigger caliber of LBX or use UACs instead.

[The Fifth Horseman]

Originally posted by WitchingSnake:

Why anyone would want to rock LBX10 or 20 is beyond me, it spreads its damage all over. Its like going for SRM instead of Artemis SRM.

LBXes don't ghost with UACs. You can take 2xUAC10+2xLB10 on an assault mech to get a reasonable compromise.

[Zyrrashijn]

Also, way higher projectile speed than the one- or multislug versions on the 20 caliber.