Small ambient light for powered up locations? Debate.

[Pixellore]

Recently and over the course of the development, I have been asked about this, so I want to make a bit of more official debate on the subject.

Some people suggest that the game is overall too dark. Which is true because that is how the game is built upon. Darkness.

However, some people suggested that if we can just lit up little bit overall it would make things better (for how and why is debatable)

So the idea is to have an optional slider where you can lit up overall ambient lights where power has been flowing much like day light in Biosphere. You still won't be able to see the undiscovered areas, but any discovered areas with power will have dim lights making them dark gray overall all the time.

I have posted the image of what would happen if it gets implemented.

no ambient
http://i.imgur.com/r2badve.jpg

ambient
http://i.imgur.com/Pq4bQri.jpg

So if this is an optional thing, do you think it will be a good thing? Or because option is there, and people start using it , it will break the immersion of the game?

Also with ambient lighting, flash lights becomes a bit more like a additional lighting, making this items a .. low priority to upgrade and develop for.

[DedZedNub]

(For what it is worth, in looking over the Guide by Auburok on Crafting, I see that many of your machines already have some of these suggested features, good.)

Well, there are a whole bunch of ways of looking at this. I'll go quickly through a few of the ways that I consider most important:

1) In the comparison pictures, there is already a good amount of light down the hallway in the non-ambient picture. So, it won't make a big deal either way in terms of gameplay. It actually may look a tad cooler without the ambient lights ... BUT a game isn't played in a static picture either. (EDIT IN: Although I'd have to really see those picks zoomed in to get a good sense of what you are going for, as the lighting is more key during zoomed in play that zoomed out -- as the larger features can be figured out mostly with the default lighting. It's mostly going to effect mood and zoomed-in play where hopefully it would not require as much zooming out when in better lit areas to navigate etc adding to a (false?) sense of security. (Also it is much easier to follow the zoomed out Map when playing zoomed out, since you pick up more features to recognize/compare -- the map zoomed in does not have furniture features so the zoomed in map does not help as much in zoomed in play.)

2) Powered up areas WOULD normally have dim lighting to indicate key areas, powered up machines, door locks, and the general direction of major hallways etc. In other words, it does mesh with even the space or survival movie "vision" of when an area is powered up. What it does is create immersion by not only graphically showing that an area is powered up, but allowing the player to better navigate powered-up areas. Although the game is a great deal about exploration and the fear of doing so for the first time, we have to assume that the actual building was meant to be navigated by actual human beings. Dr. West is free from his cell, has access to all the maps, if he powers up an area and he has access to it, it should at least visually telegraph that something is a hallway, an intersection of two larger passageways, where key machines are, etc. The tutorial does some of this, and the lighting already is not problematic. But I think overall this is a good idea especially as on option on this count. (EDIT IN: I also may not have played enough yet, which is a fair concern, but I would not mind lit signs or graphics for some key areas written into the floor textures or just as signs, etc. Yes the map covers the same thing, but if I don't have to always look to the map, the lack of those clicks keeps me more deeply immersed. It would have to fit a vision of the station's design that you imagine, but it is another way, if you like, to perhaps work with the lighting when powered up, let's say.)

3) I think what makes most darkness truly scary, is the lack of light compared to the lit areas. By that I mean, darkness seems darker if some areas are lit. It's like foreshadowing in books ... if you read that "It was a dark and stormy night ..." (yeah I know bad example of tripe, but anyway), that has more meaning if you were in a lit room that just lost its power, or if you were in dimly lit emergency power lit hallways beforehand. In a sense, it is another toy for the developer to play with, to indicate things may be broken, or power is about to go out, etc. This for me is another reason I like the option.

So, I think the key here is how it would be implemented. I'm sure you have played System Shock or Alien Breed and the like. Remember how cool it was to see the early flashing lights in certain sections of corridors, or indicating shorted out or damaged machines. Well, even if this is not done so much for some of the key machines, which I think would be cool, sort of light light-striping around the corners or edges, like reflective clothing has but lit -- you could even allow for color-coding indicating the type of machine or the function or the floor, etc ... it would still be another way to not only indicate a mood and a sense of security or progress, but also be used to indicate events, such as the loss of power, etc.

I will sum up then by basically saying, that I think this could be developed into a huge plus. It's another tool in the developer arsenal. It definitely can add to immersion, it should be optional and adjustable -- although the game already has adjustments for shadows/lighting intensity etc. It can be an active way to develop or add later things, like even a sort of wonder if the station itself is HAL-like, or under some other control, or just having odd events occur. It's a good trick in horror movies and survival/suspense. I think it is worth persuing as a concept to implement.

As long as you feel it is worth the development time and can add to the story, atmosphere, and game you are trying to present, then it is worth putting in. If it is optional and if a savegame, for example, lists what options were chosen in the score for bragging rights, no one can truly complain about it. It can also add other achievements and random events, etc., which will be easier to tell, or more assistance or complication, as desired.

It is good to have enough darkness to make light stand out and vice-versa. But it is also important to make it the interior look like what it is and tell the story of a station being reactivated from a horrorful event. Depending on progress, if the look changes, and if we keep it rational and localized, this seems like a winning concept. Implementation of the actual lighting might be hard though, as so far, I think your lighting in the early areas, with the red dim lighting at the edges and corners, has been very well done and fair. I'm sure there are darker areas though in the infected and unexplored regions, so I have no doubt you have brought this up for a good reason.

Thumbs up from me.

[Fe]

add the option, but make a warning when people using ambient slider that it might effect their gameplay experience

I feel guilty every time when I see this kind of warning after I've adjusted some game options. It make me afraid that I might miss some experience that the developer design for the game

[Imperator Heretus]

I agree that it should be added as an option, default to off.

edit: But maybe not until after release. I think it's pretty obvious that it's a dark game from the video/screenshots.

[Mahesar]

I like it. I makes sense that powering up the are would give a little more ambient lighting.

[Auburok]

Would it be possible to only have some districts be lit?

For example, maybe the floors near the control room are lit, and maybe the prison, but the rest of them aren't? It could make the floors near the control room the "newbie" areas, letting them get used to enemies, and keep the areas like Gemini or the Casino dark?

[TheFourthEye]

Given the rest of the games heavy emphasis on crafting and restoring the sections to power/oxygen/thermal perhaps it'd be nice to be able to "fix" the lighting system. Think of how the sconces work in Dark Souls 2. With some sort of crafted item, a working light bulb for example, Dr. West could light up certain areas. The lights themselves could simply give off the same light as the flashlight (or maybe upgraded lights give off light much the same as the glow stick vs flash light vs better flash light etc).

As I walk around the area, I get that the darkness adds to the forboding mood, but the game seems to be about fighting off the infection while restoring the planet. Restoring the lighting system seems like it would be a natural part of this. It could also be used to assist in what is one my few complaints: I have no easy way (other than beacons which admittedly I haven't tried using yet) to mark a room to know that I still have items to collect. With the lighting I could simply leave the room dark if I hadn't cleaned it out.

Anyways, those are my thoughts. If the only viable (easy to program) option is simply ambient lighting for visited areas within powered zones, then I'd say you should add it, but as @Fe mentioned maybe just note that it's not the intended, or best way to play.

Edit: If adding a fixed enviornmental object (like a sconce) is more time consuming than its worth, then perhaps as @Svenson has suggested a "placeable" light source may suffice. Maybe just to make it seem to fit the world it'd at least have to go on a wall where it is supposedly placed into the walls track lighting system. You could make some that also able to placed on the ground that potentially wear out or need to be recharged in some way.

[LongDog]

I feel that the addition of light to an area would give a player a feeling of acomplishment. A sence of " i beat back the darkness and won for now!" In cleared out areas i think the addition of several fuse boxes that controll such additional lights would be prudent, lights requiring fuses to be fixed so that people can " beat back " the darkness and get a sence of reclaiming parts of the station.

This would make a power outage from an overload an even more harrowing situation when the world goes dark around them.

In all the games i have played ( which is a good many ) when ever the developers give more power to the player to influence their game, their character, their enviroment, it improves their experiance. A balance must be found of course between the experiance the dev wants the player to feel and live, and what the dev will allow the player to change.

With my idea on the use of fuse boxes, i think a decent balance can be found for sure. so that both parties can be satified to a fair degree.

[Your weakness is your own]

Regardless of game balance, having some areas be more acceptably lit brings an important benefit: player fatigue.

Having every area oppressively dark gives no time to the player to decompress mentally, even areas that are mostly or even completely safe detract from the player's mental state simply because you can't see, so ANYTHING could be going on, therefore you must be on guard against uncertainty, if not against real danger.

Combined with the passage of time and consumption of resources, the pressure is on at all times. This is an accomplishment in game presentation, no doubt... but it also means the only way for the player to recharge is to stop playing.


My desire is for more visibility not tied to the character's orientation: a "safer" area should relieve the requirement for look-behind-paranoia just to ensure you're not in danger of being drooled on at any given second. A player "invading" the enemy's space should feel like the stranger there, and vice versa.

The two major factors are mental and physical fatigue. The mental fatigue comes from the oppressive environment and is a great accomplishment. The physical fatigue comes from not being able to relax while performing all the mundane running-back-and-forth housekeeping in between excursions, and is not a great accomplishment.


This is all based on my observations with a very short playtime. If all of a sudden the central "home base" areas became reasonably lit and guaranteed free from hostiles as a result of clearing them out and restoring functionality (the core is already, but not the other areas you shuttle back and forth from to accomplish basic tasks), then that would change the dynamic completely and the only thing I would suggest would be a changing amount of base light level based on the "safety" (infection level?) and power status of the region. You don't need to justify this in game. Darkness and danger are naturally linked.

Making it an option is not a good plan, as everyone's going to feel emotionally pressured to use it, even if intellectually they don't want to. I know I would, and I would be disappointed in doing so, but I still would.

[nunya_bisnes]

I have a very love/hate relationship with the oppresive darkness of this game. When first starting out, or when first exploring a new location it does an outstanding job of helping to set the mood. The ambiance is excellent for venturing into unknown and (usually very) hostile territory. But after a while it starts to wear on you, which is both good since it means you've done a damn fine job of establishing the appropriate feeling of being the lone survivor in what is essentially an apocalypse scenario (you should feel beaten down and hunted, because you are), but it's also bad because this is a game and as players we're looking to enjoy it and have fun.

This is where it gets tricky, and because of the existence of this post at all I'm assuming you've thought of this as well: Keep the darkness and have players that have to put the game down and do something else because it's just too much to handle for long/repeated times, or add some more lighting but probably destroy the immersion of the game (which would be a tragic loss).

Due to the damned if you do, damned if you don't, nature of a simple black/white, yes/no decision on adding more light, I think to best be addressed it, pretty appropriately, needs a much more grey approach:

1. Simply powering on a section shouldn't affect the lights, it doesn't give heat or O2, so why should it give light. Your first run through a section should be as dark and nasty as it can be. It should continue to look like there could be something hiding around every little corner, or coming up behind you unseen, because both of those are likely to be very true.

2. Like the heat and O2, make it a fuse that needs to be replaced at or towards the end of the exploration.
****After having typed all this out and re-read it, instead of a fuse, might go with a breaker, just like with the elvators. Fits in fairly logically with the rest of the layout then: Simple on/off like the elevators, not upgradeable like heat/O2, breaker for lights would've been tripped during the chaos just like with the elevators. Also means only one prop (that could be cloned from the elevator one) and not a prop plus item (plus possible research + engineering that would go with that new item). Wins all the way around, unless you like the 'no lights until lvl2' idea (in the next item), then you kinda need an item.

3. Unlike the heat and O2, no need to include upgrades for that fuse. One fuse to replace, lights are either on or they're not. Researching and engineering a better fuse wouldn't realistically increase lights anyway, either the fuse is strong enough and you get light, or it's not and you get nothing.
-Possibility coming off of that: Make the fuse a lvl2 item for engineering. It doesn't take all that long to get to lvl2 items, might add a real feeling of accomplishment/progression to go from simply scrounging and hacking things together to survive at lvl1 to starting to actually "make it" at lvl2 (and then find out how wrong you were around lvl3/when invasions start... feel free to find a fluffy cat to pet while laughing maniacally at this point)

4. Also unlike the heat and O2, and I'm totally ripping this part off of the post above mine (author of which apparently doesn't like Kotick, or possibly is Kotick. Dunno, my grammer sucks. Either way, his idea, I liked it and think I built on it a bit more), instead of having the light affect infection levels, have the infection levels affect the light.
- This would allow some areas to be well lit, relieving the stress and tension at least temporarily (in addition to providing a contrast so players will feel it that much more when they are forced to venture back out into the dark and unknown).
- Would still maintain the needed/intended atmosphere of the game, as when everything is all cleared out and there's (almost) nothing to worry about, it can be lighter and easier to see. But when the ♥♥♥♥ hits the fan and infection levels are high... the light starts to flee as quickly as your hopes of survival and escape (which may actually add even more to the immersion and atmosphere of the game).


Here's where I really start to talk out of my ass... Possibilities/ideas for simplest inclusion into the game (should be fleshed out better as time, effort, other priorities dictate):

---For the fuse box: "just" create a new floor prop (I'd think fairly small, like the recharge stations) to take the fuse.
++On multi-floor levels tie the generation of that prop to the elevator controls on the last floor (depending on how the code is implemented, might be a simple logic check: if last floor use switch with fuse, else use standard elevator power switch).
+++Maybe for the first implementation even have that last elevator switch just do the lights too.
++On single-floor maybe tie it to either the O2 or heat generator rooms. Just as they always have a recharge station, one of them will have the fuse box for the lights.
+++could always do that for multi-floor levels too. From my limited experience heat is always further into the level than O2, so assuming that observation is correct I'd say tie it to the heat. Heat and light kinda go together thematically anyway, and they're both fuses vs. the O2 which is a filter.

---Light levels: Having it ramp up (well, drop off) faster as the local infection levels increase would likely prove a nice fit (ex. 1-10% infection drops from 100-90% light, 10-20 infection 90-70 light, 20-30 inf 70-30 light, 30+ rapidly approaches current light levels, where you can't see ♥♥♥♥), but as that may be a ♥♥♥♥♥ to code might also go with a simpler light=100% - 2 (or 3)x infection level.
++Note: I wouldn't expect or want even 100% light to actually be "bright", even fixed it's still a rigged up job by someone who's just a little busy trying to escape without being eaten. I'd think just bright enough that, for example, you could make your runs back and forth between engineering, research and the main power area with out needing to carry/use any additional light sources to do your work (general ballpark, probably about 1.5-2x brighter than your 'with lights' pic) . Then have it drop off from there based on infection level.


wow... one great big wall of text. Hell of a way to do my first post here on steam. Hopefully it helps show the level of appreciation I have for the excellent game you've put together for us. When playing, you can feel the levels of dedication and love that went into the making of it.
Truly: Thank You for that, and I sincerely hope that sales are doing well so you can have something a bit more concrete to go along with the praise from your fans (as nice, and necessary, as it is for a developer, gratitude and appreciation don't put food on the table).

[Pixellore]

thank you for your feedback. i think the best thing i can do is tag along with the elevator switch.

[SystemInShock]

I say light the base areas (as long as they are powered) and leave the rest as it is.

I do like the idea above of being able to research and craft lightsticks and be able to throw them all over the place. The fiction to support the light problems is that the infection doesn't like light so it grows over the lights to preserve itself. The base area has lights because the surviving martians tested something that killed that part of the infection in the base areas. This was because the lighting problem started before the main infection. They didn't know it was going to get worse. They would have done in the rest of the areas but were overtaken. You can find a log to that effect somewhere. The recipe for it could be on the log, but wait, the log was corrupted so you'll never know how to make it.

[DedZedNub]

I think Suck It, Kotick put it very well. If you are going to go through all this work to allow the player to affect lighting in any way, it's chief value is to affect mood -- creating a bit of player relief and a sense of sanctuary.

But, I must admit that now that I've gone through the Prison area a few times to get to the Tram, I find that most of this seems to have been already done in that sector. I find the lighting varies quite logically overall, and now many of the stations and machines have various glows on them.

I'll just say, that to me the lighting is used to effect a trick on the player. It can influence moods, it can signal the relative safety or importance of an area, it can indicate sanctuary or indicate progress. I think that those elements included with the need for the actual player to get a chance for some relief, makes for a better way for the developer to create climax, pathos, dread, relief, and that has a lot of value to the developer and the gamer.

I also like the fuse concept overall, but it may create more hassle and more tasks to do, that may effect balance.

I also like Svenson's idea for a throwable, or a craftable portable device that you could fold up and then put away, much like a turret, but for lighting might be useful -- although combining the two as one might be another idea.

The game's pacing may be effected by all this. I do think that it can be an option because it still allows for a nightmare mode (we forgot to bring the fuses because the ship left early and the engineers said we'd never need any ... or the alien rodents actually eat filaments for dinner and are attracted to light, oh shucks) and allows for various bragging rights.

[Digital Wino]

I was kind of under the impression that the while station was on emergency lighting. Which would mean that there would not be much in general. So keeping it low is fine. Besides... it's your game, lol. If you want it to be dark because that is the atmosphere you're looking for, then make it dark >:-D

Throwable limited time light sources, such as flares, aren't a bad idea. Or even having the light level be set, but different for each difficulty. Some of us enjoy a challenge (personally I'm playing on hardcore, I'd go nightmare, but I'm not sure I'm quite ready for the perma-death yet). But some of us don't have as much time and like to play through more for the story and game play, which is just as valid as playing on harder modes. To each their own.

[Blue Boogers]

Yeah like Digital Whino I just assumed the station was on emergency, low power, lighting so I'm fine with the game as it is now.

[CarlinFan]

If added at all, ambient light should tax the generator. Then, gamers have the choice if placing additional strain on the generator for lighting is worth it it or not.