Is AMRA 3 Worth Considering?

[Kronovan]

I own all of the ARMA 2 collection, but have barely played any of it. I just got going with it again when I noticed that ARMA 3 is on sale for a deep discount. Other than eye candy, which for me isn't nearly as important as game play, what big improvements over ARMA 2 does 3 bring to the table?

I have so little time invested in ARMA 2, which I also bought at a deep discount, that if 3 is a big improvement I'd probably just buy it and play it instead. I should probably mention that I'm not interested in playing online, so the SP campaign would be what's most important to me. So if ARMA 3's SP play isn't as good as 2's or even on par, I'd appreciate that sort of feedback.

[Zodd]

Arma 3 is a much smoother experience. It still has the Arma feel to it but it is much less 'clunky' feeling than Arma 2.

If you are sticking with single player stuff you really should look into mission editing - it is quite easy to set up a simple mission with replayabilty (using waypoints with random radius, setting probability of units being in a location to less than 100% etc). In this aspect, Arma 3 is vastly superior to Arma 2 is they have implemented the 3D editor.
Arma 2 does have more content in the form of mods but Arma 3 is getting there and the Arma 3 launcher is pretty good at handling both steam and non steam mods.
If you DO decide to play online at all (I am not a fan of all the wacky RPG-esque game modes out there but there are a few good teamwork based, PVE servers) then Arma 3 is really the only option.

[Kronovan]

OK, good to know & many thanks for replying. I'm interested in the Editor, but more as a possible tool for me to milk ideas for my miniatures games - run the Force on Force tabletop at least twice a month. From what I read in ARMA 2's manual though, there seems to be a fairly comprehensive editor included with it. I do like the idea of being able to construct a mission in 3D though, as I usually create 3D scenery and landscapes for my tabletop scenarios / sessions. My problem with ARMA 3 is that it seems to have been quite a departure for BI, in that a lot of what in previous ARMAs was core content is only available as DLC.

But say I was to purchase 3...what are the essential DLCs for it? I should mention that I already get lots of jet action in the DCS Flaming Cliffs 3 combat flightsim, so jets in ARMA 3 isn't something I necessarily want to explore - Helo's for sure though. But what about Apex & Marksman, what are they and what do the add? And for the luv of...what is Karts?

[Zodd]

None of the DLCs are 'essential' but Apex probably offers the most; new island (jungle - amazing), faction, kit etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwAxJC9AR_A

I think BI is quite generous with the expansion model; getting the DLC allows you to directly use the DLC content (eg in the editor) but even if you dont have it you can still play with people that do (I believe even use the weapons if you can get them in MP as well). Karts was just an april fools thing that people had a bit of fun with.

The DLCs basically EXPAND on one particular element (choppers, jets, tanks soon etc) but the engine improvements (eg. flight model, sensors) are provided to all, regardless of DLC ownership. The base content is perfectly fine, and continues to grow (much like A2 although I think some people forget that sometimes). If do you want more though there is a pretty big modding scene with everything from islands to full factions.

Both A2 and A3 have incredibly powerful editors, even without any form of scripting ability. If you have a bit of programming experience and/or are willing to learn a small amount, you can do even more. The addition of the 3D editor is night and day though; especially if you are more interested in fine detail. Things like adjusting weapons on tables etc is a nightmare in 2D (and requires you to set the position via scripting in the initialisation box of the item), generally consists of placing the item, then previewing the game, then tweaking etc. The 3D editor just lets you position it in the 3D game view using standard 3D style tools (move handles, rotation handles etc)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=928qd7LRkiQ


Best bet is just have a look through the official videos. If you like what you see, pick it up.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEB08282F43F00CE7

[Kronovan]

Originally posted by Zodd:

Things like adjusting weapons on tables etc is a nightmare in 2D (and requires you to set the position via scripting in the initialisation box of the item), generally consists of placing the item, then previewing the game, then tweaking etc. The 3D editor just lets you position it in the 3D game view using standard 3D style tools (move handles, rotation handles etc)

I think this won't be so much of a problem for me. I make maps for tabletop games (sometimes even get paid $ doing it) with Campaign Cartographer 3, which has FastCAD running under its hood. Having a Computer Aided Design app at its core, CC3 allows you to alternatively position symbols and polys from a command line, so the process isn't foreign to me. I also have some background in the GIS biz, having worked at time when keying in COGO for some edits was an awkward necessity. If the ARMA 2 editor has a half decent coordinate reference system for maps, I feel comfortable saying I wouldn't have a problem positioning objects by keyed-in 3d coordinates. For sure I prefer positioning by mouse or stylus, but doing it by coord's wouldn't ruin my day. :) My biggest problem with getting into vidgame editors/modding is time, as it's time I should be spending on my other projects.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=928qd7LRkiQ
...
Best bet is just have a look through the official videos. If you like what you see, pick it up.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEB08282F43F00CE7

Many thanks for the providing the links, I will most definitely check them out.

[Zodd]

If you are interested in more fine editing details I cannot recommend Arma 3 enough. Like I said earlier, the difference between the 2D and 3D editor is night and day. I am more than comfortable with coordinate systems and programming but the sheer ease of use of the 3D editor (and unpredictability of the 2D based system for fine details) makes A3 a clear winner in that aspect.

This goes for base construction etc as well, as the 2D map based workflow involves positioning icons on the map (which dont represent dimensions/orientation of the in game object) then previewing and making the small adjustments over and over. A nightmare for anything outside trivial constructions.

If your design doesnt rely on the fine details, then A2 should be fine. Likewise, if you have some programming ability it isnt TOO hard to make your own in game editor (I did it without too much trouble).

As you already own A2, I would say have a play around with it and see if you can achieve what you want achieve in it - If you can do that and have no major gameplay interest then there isnt a requirement to get A3. Otherwise, A3 is better in pretty much every way.

[Zodd]

Now that Argo is out (free) you can get it to give youself a pretty good feel for the differences between A3 editor (Eden editor which is what Argo has) and the A2 editor.

Go here, activate on steam then download (going direct through steam isnt working currently)
https://store.bistudio.com/products/project-argo

[definitive_prankster]

Hi all
Forgive my inexperience:

I have Arma 2 but never really played. Getting an urge to either set up some 1 player scenarios or play online. Is the A3 MP still active?

Also, I'm intrigued by the '50% chance the enemy will be there' thing, is that all easy to do in each game?

Finally... in custom levels, how is the AI of your squad...?

[Zodd]

For what it's worth, I love setting up single player missions and play a single soldier in a larger operation (eg. A rifleman on board an APC as part of a combined mech infantry/armour dawn assault on a town supported by fixed wing assets with defensive artillery for the enemy). I will generally make missions like that and set a whole heap of units as playable to get different experiences.

MULTIPLAYER

- (Active enough)
I havent played A3 multiplayer for a while (public MP for even longer) but if you enjoy that style it is seriously worth finding a RELAXED group that plays - that is where A3 shines.

If you are looking for public games to get a taste, some the Invade and Annex or Capture the Island (CTI) servers are populated enough to enjoy (although you are more likely to get into smaller team (2-5) coop than full coordinated sections). Note that this doesnt hold a candle to the organised group stuff though.
A lot of the MP servers run things like the life mod or king of the hill (RPG style or free for all) though; not my style but seems to be where a large number of people play.
(*NB: It appears as though there are more official servers running other modes that I have no experience with)

EDITING

- (x% chance of being present - easy)
The Arma 2 editor is pretty comparable to the Arma 3 (2D) editor (Note Arma 3 now has a full 3D editor which is exponetially better for many things) so you could check out the functionality in there. Basically when you place a unit, there is a slider (something like probability of presence) which you can alter. This means you can put a bunch of units down but set different probabilities so you have good replay value for the same mission.
In addition to that, you can have waypoints be in a random radius of where you placed them (so you can put a few around general points in a town with a big radius to create unpredictable patrols through town). All of this is done via sliders in the editor so no scripting or anything required.
For context, this mission was 60 seconds worth of editor time (A few enemy groups with random proability to be present, random positions and dismounted/armour waypoitnts synch'd with triggers)

https://youtu.be/fXyC_jVbXcE

edit: As per the previous posts in this thread, you can get Argo for free and play around with the editor there - It has both the 2D and 3D (3DEN) editor that Arma 3 uses (albiet with significantly less assets I believe)

AI

- (Good enough)
The AI is basically as good as the mission creator makes it. For a single unit it is pretty straight forward but if you have multiple units coordinating, you will want to ensure that you set up robust waypoints and control measures (ie. triggers to synch).

EXAMPLE: Making a mission where two sections attack an objective
1. Simple way - Just placing down a waypoint to the objective for both sections means they will probably cross over paths and there is a good chance one will end up miles ahead of the other.
2. A better way - Seperate (but aligned) routes for each section with waypoints every ~50-100m. Each waypoint is sych'd to the other section's so they will wait for each other in the assault.
3. Best way - Using scripting to monitor the status of each section, combining the sections if one loses too many soldiers, changing waypoint locations based off new enemies identified etc.

There are also some good AI mods that increase use of flanking, supressing fire etc within sections. There are also others that allow AI to use offensive support (mortars etc)

That video I linked earlier was done using the second method and took all of a minute with different outcomes each time.



If it sounds good to you, I cant recommend it enough. Bascially there are two reasons you might love it:
1. Creating your own missions for solo experience (or coop if you have a mate) - It is worth having a play around with the A2 editor to see if you enjoy making those. If you enjoy it in the slightest then I would say grab A3
2. You want the multiplayer side (either the Life/RPG style or the king of the hill OR you join a relaxed group that plays in a more coordinated fashion). I would say probably watch a few videos of the gameplay to see if you are willing to take the plunge. It really does shine in the organised group setting though.

[definitive_prankster]

Originally posted by Zodd:

Thank you for you detailed answer! I think once I have wiped my pc and reinstalled (as it is getting clunky) I'll get Arma 3 and see how I go. Sounds like even if I can't find some friendly playmates I can have fun making missions (and I imagine downloading other people's!).

I WOULD post on the Arma 3 forum, but you have to own the game to post(!), but it's very active so that sounds good.

[Zodd]

The forums are pretty good too - worth dropping by and having at least a look through (And a good spot to ask questions also)

https://forums.bistudio.com/forums/forum/218-arma-3/