(SPOILERS!!!) Love the game, but I have some Lore related questions.

[Joshzilla89]

So after beating the game I got the general gist of the Story, although some of it was confusing I think because of the weird translation. Then I did some more research going through some threads here to understand it a bit better. I went to the creators Twitter, but it's all in Japanese so I'd like to see if anybody here would have the answers. They are pretty minor, but it's little things that have been bugging me. I also got as much out of the Inn Woman (Karen?) as I could, but I could only get so much each time before she was I was too full for more questions.

#1: The Landwhale enemies, is there any explanation for them? The early "Warriors" you meet I at first assumed they were some sort of Mutant Animal/Invertebrate (Like the "Jellyfish" in the Beast category.), since they Bleed. The Bigger ones (which some of the Warriors are stated to grow into.) however shoot Missiles out of their body which seems inorganic, and then you have the "Hives" that Spawn Warriors. The only thing I can think of that makes sense is a mixture of mutant creatures, and nanomachines for making inorganic weapons in them.

#2: For the "Demons" the Corpses you see of them around seem pretty organic, but then the Trumpeter Bosses (except for the last one.) all seem completely mechanical, and yet they are supposed to hate science/technology? Was any explanation ever given for why? Like did they replace their bodies with Machinery like the "Angels"? Also one of the Girls (Harriet?) tells you that the minor enemy ones are made from Humans, was an explanation given for this? I mean did the Trumpeters take humans/corpses, and make them into more Demons or something like that?

#3: The Martyr seems like a Superhuman, which I assumed was her being a Cyborg, and the explanation for the other characters Cybernetics seems to be that they are "Blessings" replicating the Martyr's "Blessings", but then it also seems to state that she has no Cybernetics whatsoever. But then in the Artwork there is one called "Heavy Cybernetics" that seems to show her being basically a near full Cyborg, so is there a definitive answer on whether she is or not?

#4: The human enemies you face in game all seem to be Girls, I assumed they were all Clones like the Martyr since they all have the same face depending on the enemy (And the NPC Girls you talk to seem to each represent some of the Enemy Types), was this ever confirmed? Or is it just a coincidence like NPCs, and enemies in most games usually looking the same.

Thanks for any answers! I really enjoyed the game, and I'm hoping we'll get a third eventually.

[Discount blackbeard]

Yeah Iv been looking and cant find anyone doing a deep dive on this games lore really want that.

but from my understanding demons love cybernetic and were using them to pose as fake angels for humans and the seven angels we killed in the last game was the weakest of the angels that's why humans were protecting them.

Also I thought the Martyr is human cause at the end the boy does say you have come this far without cybernetics. and she bleed blood and what not like shes human but she was cursed to be forever an enemy of angels and demons. her having so many bodies and cryo pods could be part of that, like no matter what she does she has to suffer while shes awake.

But this is just my understanding of things I only just beat the game and I know I am messing a few things and want to go back and look over everything.

[Byrdn]

I don't think all of the enemies are girls - it's just difficult to say, when the male characters look like Tycho, Elulu and Esqa.

[Young Erusean Officer]

Martyr is a superhuman. She also has no cybernetics which make her immune to the Enlightenment Wave. The artificial god's presence that made almost all cyborgs berserk.

The Landwhales were absent in the first game. The only mention of Landwhales in the first game are through the Whalegun itself. There's two things I can think of; the first being that the dev made a witty move to add enemy variety of the game. Explains why the gun is named that way and makes a throwback in one stroke. The second is that they always there but something after Citadel 1's timeline made them surface, either unseen events, the purification of the ending, or perhaps both things.

Seeing the Whales aren't aggressive to the Enlightened, perhaps there's a connection. The whales being literal bioweapons or weaponized lifeforms harkens back to the origin of the angels.

Most enemies appear to be female. Exceptions so far are likely Esqa, Tycho and the Angel from the first game. It is likely that the Citadel has a matriarchal society, if their religion or spirituality is responsible for that (other than the deification of a Martyr-like figure). It'd make sense that the army, religious figures and leaders are female (since that's pretty much all the enemy types you run into).

All male characters play more of a supportive/background role, including the angel mentioned pre-madness.

About Angels and Demons. This is the most complicated subject, however they are one in the same. The bosses of the first game were in fact demons, however through technology they became demigods in order to help humans. There's on ongoing theme with them they desperately try to do good but can't. Either because of their flaw or weakness or through fate itself being a harsh mistress.

Humans themselves pitied those demons and used their technology to make them the demigods of the citadel. However, the cybernetic components made them vulnerable to the artificial god themselves had created to boon humans.

The real angels, hate sin therefore hate humans and hate technology. They are chaotic evil villains and are mostly shrouded in mystery. So far it is unknown if they are self-conscious or operate more like some sort of hivemind. For irony's sake they do use the technology but it seems mostly based around organic matter. Both angels and demons ultimately seemed driven to recreate or create their idealized version of god.

The god of the angels would be an apocalyptic figure because it would bring about the end of the world, humanity and sin. While the god of the demons of defeated, mirrors that but without intent due to the previous mentioned curse or short shortsightedness of the demons that always cause them to always cause evil even when they don't intend to because they can't escape their nature.

The third game will explain more. So far the only unmentioned difference between both is that demons do not lack empathy or morality, however they appear to come from the same source as the angels. I suspect this is something they learned overtime rather than something they were born with.

There's a third party at play, if you look at the unlockable art in game its a little obvious. The origin of the Trumpeters, the angels and demons, likely the landwhales. We'll have to wait.


Edit: Also, the fact the Trumpeters seem more like something a human or demon would create because they being at least part machine if not completely machine also allures to this unknown third party.

[Byrdn]

Originally posted by Young Erusean Officer:

Martyr is a superhuman. She also has no cybernetics which make her immune to the Enlightenment Wave. The artificial god's presence that made almost all cyborgs berserk.

Most enemies appear to be female. Exceptions so far are likely Esqa, Tycho and the Angel from the first game. It is likely that the Citadel has a matriarchal society, if their religion or spirituality is responsible for that (other than the deification of a Martyr-like figure). It'd make sense that the army, religious figures and leaders are female (since that's pretty much all the enemy types you run into).

All male characters play more of a supportive/background role, including the angel mentioned pre-madness.

Worth noting: not having cybernetics alone isn't enough to make you immune to the enlightenment waves. Beyond Citadel states this is because the brain functions through electrical impulses.

If I recall, a few of the Angels the Martyr kills in The Citadel are male. The angel of Wrath is one, I think Krone might be another? Then there's our buddy on wheels.

[Young Erusean Officer]

That lore entry explains how the enlightenment wave works now how it makes you immune to it. Like even if you have a cybernetic arm you are in danger because the nervous system is ultimately tied to the brain.

That's why all the NPCs are immune to it and why the sister with the old fashioned life support engine on her back that seems to function like an iron lung/artificial heart is immune to it too.

[Savior8801 (P-L)]

Something I remember about the "female enemies", they are not, in fact all women. Due to the death/disappearance of the original God, all life on Earth experienced genetic degeneration. In humans' case, they lost most of their sexual dimorphism, with both males and females showing a large degree of what we would call secondary female sexual characteristics and morphology. Only the genitals properly differentiate either at this point, and we never explicitly see those on enemies.

So we're not, in fact, unilaterally committing violence against anime waifus. Some of them are traps.

[K.I.L.E.R]

Originally posted by Savior8801 (P-L):

Only the genitals properly differentiate either at this point, and we never explicitly see those on enemies.

Someone is already working on a mod to make this possible!

[Dervantar]

There is this artwork of a female with horns. Completly cybernetic.
Only the brain, eyes and spine is organic.
It looks a little bit like the martyr.

My guess is:
She is 99% cybernetic and onboard of the Edelweiss or somewhere else. Out of reach of the enlightment wave.
Her bodies are some kind of mind transfer. The game states that the enlightment wave is something similar to the Martyr and her body transfer technology.

That's my interpretation for now. There is a real martyr somewhere and her bodies are just her proxies.

[Young Erusean Officer]

My own interpretation is that what is left of the original Martyr and Elulu died with Ephemeral, the Angel of Lust. I believe the horned angel and the third clone of Martyr will be the focus of the third game.

[Savior8801 (P-L)]

Speaking of the plot, does anyone else think Elulu's consciousness should not be a part of the seven artifacts at all? He and the original martyr survived the starry night, so they were not part of the souls of humanity harvested by the trumpeters. They were personally punished for their sins instead. When "Elulu" says "we do not wish to become God"... I don't think that's little bro talking.

[Savior8801 (P-L)]

Originally posted by K.I.L.E.R:

Originally posted by Savior8801 (P-L):

Only the genitals properly differentiate either at this point, and we never explicitly see those on enemies.

Someone is already working on a mod to make this possible!

lol Futa-lovers gonna futa-love. Whatevs, I don't hate. As long as I don't have to install it, who cares how others mod their games?

[Dervantar]

Originally posted by Young Erusean Officer:

My own interpretation is that what is left of the original Martyr and Elulu died with Ephemeral, the Angel of Lust. I believe the horned angel and the third clone of Martyr will be the focus of the third game.

I believe it's her unborn twins and not in fact, Elulu and Martyr that make up the angel of lust.

After all someone came and saved Martyr after she was ripped apart. They could have saved what was in her womb too in retrospect, now that we know that Esqa was literally an ovum and was saved somehow.

[Young Erusean Officer]

Originally posted by Savior8801 (P-L):

Speaking of the plot, does anyone else think Elulu's consciousness should not be a part of the seven artifacts at all? He and the original martyr survived the starry night, so they were not part of the souls of humanity harvested by the trumpeters. They were personally punished for their sins instead. When "Elulu" says "we do not wish to become God"... I don't think that's little bro talking.

Likely that's the entity made up of those almost 10 billion people decided to take the form of someone close to Martyr she could trust. That's why they apologize for deceiving her and also the fact they apologize for being weak and spoiled if Martyr does activate the god hints the entity also had his memories.

[Urist McDood]

The entire schtick about the loss of sexual dimorphism is a thing like the dev had mentioned in an interview. The influence was from the book Time Machine by HG Wells where humanity had become child-like and it was hard to tell who was what and they were ultimately used as cattle for the Morlocks.

Young Erusean Office has probably the most complete description from what bits are scattered in the game itself but I'd like to present some speculation for the period of wait, if or when the third game comes out. A note that I'm not religious but I've done some Bible studies as part of a few Humanity's courses and those grant some interesting insight.

Warning, massive speculative tangent ahead:

The concept of demons unable to do good stems from the free will that Lucifer chose to act upon. In the Bible, Lucifer is constantly in the presence of God and had the complete knowledge of God and his glory (Ezekiel 28:14). So by fundamentalist Christian standards, the guy had zero reason to defy god and thus by doing so he was cast from heaven, being the ultimate evil for defying God's infallible logic(TM). The Bible goes on to conveniently ignore the possibility of redemption for Lucifer and his followers, and that while demons can feel and believe (James 2:19), they can never do good. They're supposedly completely devoted in heart, mind and soul to destroy everything about God and things related to him. This comes from Isaiah 14: 12-14.

Of course this is strictly under the belief that demons, angels, hell pretty much anything are unable to change and hold their beliefs in ironclad dogma, that and the belief that turning away God inherently means nothing you do can be good for anyone. This presents the question of what happens when the beings of Hell want to actually do some good after millennia of stewing in their angst, turning over a new leaf one may say. As Arronax in Arcanum would say: "I have been imprisoned here for near two thousand years, which is more than enough time to regret the mistakes of one's youth."

It's pretty much spelt out that the machine angels in the game are demons, Lucifer's children. Abrahamic religions tend to have the belief of Original Sin, the thing that whatever sins an ancestors have are passed down onto the future generation going all the way back to the sins of Adam and Eve. Thus, all the machine angels carry Lucifer's inability to do good and if they do so it comes with an unforeseen cost, the literal Devil's Bargain. On some level the machine angels know that, and they try to game the system by framing it as something else. Unfortunately God and their father Satan don't buy that and fate ultimately takes it's course.

The game seems to take place during the end times known as The Millennium. The Millennium is the age where the Earth enters it's final stages before final judgement is cast and places the Earth into an eternal future known as "The World to Come" which is described as a redeemed Earth or Heaven on Earth. You can read all this up in the Book of Revelation. It's essentially how the apocalypse will unfold according to the Bible.

Judging by the events of the first game, it's possible that Rev. 20: 1-4 has been carried out. In that passage it is said that an angel will descend to Earth to capture Satan and drop him into a bottomless pit to imprison him for a thousand years. It might also be Rev. 20: 11-15 where Satan is cast into a lake of fire, forever more. Considering that it was the machine angels attempting to create a new god for humanity to believe in, I'm going to hazard that the Sleeping God is Satan and he is quite miffed at Heaven still.

Now lets get back to Beyond Citadel with the Trumpeteers of the Apocalypse. There are 7 angels, and incidentally there are Seven Trumpets described in the Book of Revelation. Each trumpet, when blown causes massive devastation to the Earth. (Rev. 8:6-10, Rev. 9: 1-12, Rev 11: 15-19)
-The first trumpet is said to bring devastation on the Earth itself, raining hellfire.
-The second turns the sea into blood, destroying everything in it.
-The third poisons all water sources. (Incidentally Chapter 3 is a water based zone)
-The fourth stops celestial movement, the sun, moon and stars stop moving.
-The fifth trumpet causes Satan to send angry locusts to his followers to torture them. (Incidentally this is when everyone in the Citadel is killed)
-The sixth trumpet sends 4 angels and an army of 2 million where they go on to kill 1/3rd of the Earth's population. It is said that humanity will dig it's heels in defiance against God at this point. I mean with what has just happened, I'd expect so.
-The final trumpet opens the temple of God in Heaven where the Ark of the Covenant is. The Earth suffers from lightning, noises, thunder, earthquakes and great hail.

Most people have probably heard about the second coming of Christ and that's what seems to be the final ending sequence of Beyond Citadel. Whether to complete the Book of Revelation by causing the second coming or by stopping it through the device's destruction.

[Joshzilla89]

Thanks for all the answers! Sorry if my questions were a bit confusing, but I've learned a lot more here! I've been trying to find more info from the Developer, but like I mentioned his Twitter is all in Japanese so it's a bit tricky.
I did read somewhere else while researching after making this Thread that the Landwhales, and maybe the lower "Demons" (In case it was confusing since I used the quotes since they are "Angels") you fight are what eventually happens to the Blob Monsters (That are what the Brainwashed Humans eventually degenerate into?) as they will eventually become the Landwhales or "Demons". I'm still looking for confirmation on that, as I never read it from the Inn Keeper (Although I did get her saying the Blobs are what the "Faithful" eventually become.)

Originally posted by Urist McDood:

BIG INFORMATIVE POST

Yeah I'm a Christian, so from reading Revelation through a few times I understood, and look for a lot the allegory in the game with the Trumpeters, and whatnot. I don't know how much in the game is supposed to be literally from the End Times Prophecies though for example in Revelation there are said to be 144,000 chosen Jews with a Mark on their foreheads (12,000 from each tribe of Israel.), which the game sort of uses, but only in that there were only 144,000 Humans left after all the Cataclysms, and then they were apparently put into 12 Cities of 12,000 each in game. I'm also expecting if we get third game that "God", and the "Angels/Demons" will be explained to be some sort of Ancient Aliens as they all seem like bizarre Monsters in the in game Universe.