Just the early notice. Don't feed the clown farmers.

[TrixyTrixter]

There is absolutely gonna be clown farmers coming and posting really dumb stuff. Just remember, don't feed the clown farmers.

[GasmisenFeik]

It's so hard not to just go out on people, and ruin the civility of conversation seeing all of these brain-dead, bad-faith takes on what the game is going to be/what the game is, honestly? I haven't seen a bunch of people immediately dog pile a game that's been recently announced to be coming/being made since the more recent FNaF games.

Which honestly makes me worried that people are beginning to think that being original means you can't take inspiration from other games, shows, movies, etc.— (Which brings to mind this video I've watched from bobvids that covers this exact thing (3:47-4:47))Like, yeah, Mascot Horror as a genre has a lot of unoriginal, copy cat, lazy eggs in the basket, but does that mean all of them are bad? Does that mean you can automatically say it's bad just because it's Mascot Horror and make crass comparisons to already established games? I feel like I'm going insane here, damn!

[Psychotic Ninja]

Originally posted by GasmisenFeik:

It's so hard not to just go out on people, and ruin the civility of conversation seeing all of these brain-dead, bad-faith takes on what the game is going to be/what the game is, honestly? I haven't seen a bunch of people immediately dog pile a game that's been recently announced to be coming/being made since the more recent FNaF games.

Which honestly makes me worried that people are beginning to think that being original means you can't take inspiration from other games, shows, movies, etc.— (Which brings to mind this video I've watched from bobvids that covers this exact thing (3:47-4:47))Like, yeah, Mascot Horror as a genre has a lot of unoriginal, copy cat, lazy eggs in the basket, but does that mean all of them are bad? Does that mean you can automatically say it's bad just because it's Mascot Horror and make crass comparisons to already established games? I feel like I'm going insane here, damn!

Is an argument really in bad faith when the majority (or a lot, your words) of a genre, or sub genre, has garbage, or (again, your words) a lot of unoriginal, copy cat, lazy eggs in the basket? No, really, think about it. People are tired of a sub genre, they've seen, they've played a fair amount, and have concluded it's mostly garbage. But more are being produced. It's safe to assume it's also going to be garbage. Could this be different? Sure, it's a gamble. But it's a gamble stacked against the player.

[GasmisenFeik]

Originally posted by Psychotic Ninja:

Is an argument really in bad faith when the majority (or a lot, your words) of a genre, or sub genre, has garbage, or (again, your words) a lot of unoriginal, copy cat, lazy eggs in the basket? No, really, think about it. People are tired of a sub genre, they've seen, they've played a fair amount, and have concluded it's mostly garbage. But more are being produced. It's safe to assume it's also going to be garbage. Could this be different? Sure, it's a gamble. But it's a gamble stacked against the player.

All of this can mostly be answered from another person's comment from a different discussion thread that I think says it best:

Originally posted by TastyBuffun:

I understand that it's a saturated genre, but just automatically assuming that up-coming developers are making their games in bad-faith is just rude and disheartening.

But honestly, yeah, it's just rude (and disheartening) to automatically assume that the developer's intentions are to make garbage; It doesn't help either to paint the entirety of a sub-genre as automatically rubbish when you yourself aren't giving feedback to improve the game(s) in the first place and are just doom posting about how it'll be bad. I'd count that as unproductive?

Edit: I think it's also clear that you might need to re-assess your biases as well, because let's be honest, I'm sensing clear bias in what you've said? I can get being cautious but using biases to immediately affirm that something will be bad/“garbage” is not good either.

[Psychotic Ninja]

Originally posted by GasmisenFeik:

But honestly, yeah, it's just rude (and disheartening) to automatically assume that the developer's intentions are to make garbage;

Good thing I never said it's the dev's intentions to make garbage. I just said that odds are it's going to be garbage, because (again in your words) this genre has a lot of unoriginal, copy cat, lazy eggs in the basket (or garbage in other words). It sounds like no one has cracked the code in what makes the genre work, except maybe the guy behind FNAF.

Originally posted by GasmisenFeik:

It doesn't help either to paint the entirety of a sub-genre as automatically rubbish when you yourself aren't giving feedback to improve the game(s) in the first place and are just doom posting about how it'll be bad. I'd count that as unproductive?

If (throwing a percentage here) 90% of a genre is ass, and not intentionally so, but because people haven't figured out how to make something good out of it, maybe, just maybe, there's no salvaging it.

Originally posted by GasmisenFeik:

Edit: I think it's also clear that you might need to re-assess your biases as well, because let's be honest, I'm sensing clear bias in what you've said? I can get being cautious but using biases to immediately affirm that something will be bad/“garbage” is not good either.

Oh, I'm sorry, let me re-assess my biases. Aaand re-assessed. Yeah, it still sounds like people have unintendedly produced garbage in this sub genre, people are tired of getting their hopes up, only to find out the game they were excited for didn't meet their expectations, and deemed said game as garbage. Yet, the games are still being made cause "maybe this one will crack the code" and be the next FNAF. Then there are those, like you, with their own biases (yes, everyone has biases, it's normal) that can't say anything negative about anything or anyone cause "it might hurt their feelings" or "they put in a lot of time and effort" or some other surface level reasoning. People are burned, people have been hurt before. People are tired of the same thing being reproduced by different people. People are seeing the red flags, and are rightfully calling them out. It's people like you and OP who are blind to the potential truth that this could end up, like the majority of others in this sub genre, being garbage, because you "don't want to hurt people's feelings" or whatever. Again, could I be wrong, and this ends up being the next FNAF, or better? Sure, but statistically scientifically speaking, odds are it's going to be garbage. Not saying the devs should abandon the game, just at least they should ask themselves "why" are they making the game, and "what's something new" they're bringing to the table.

[GasmisenFeik]

Originally posted by Psychotic Ninja:

Good thing I never said it's the dev's intentions to make garbage. I just said that odds are it's going to be garbage, because (again in your words) this genre has a lot of unoriginal, copy cat, lazy eggs in the basket (or garbage in other words). It sounds like no one has cracked the code in what makes the genre work, except maybe the guy behind FNAF.

I'm just going to leave you off with whatever you're talking about after this comment/reply, cuz clearly I can't at least come up with positives about the future of this game to you. Also, you most likely haven't read into the thread that I brought up earlier, either. Your whole rant(s) have just been (implicit) assumptions brought by an honestly Doomer approach at how you've come at these types of games. You also use others' words a lot, it seems, where it just turns into a loop of repeating what you've already said. So y'know, why bother?

Originally posted by Psychotic Ninja:

If (throwing a percentage here) 90% of a genre is ass, and not intentionally so, but because people haven't figured out how to make something good out of it, maybe, just maybe, there's no salvaging it.

You also just answered yourself in the last point too, “but because people haven't figured out how to make something good out of it,” when you've just talked about Scott Cawthon and FNaF, which, sure, has been having unpopular releases recently but clearly hit the mark somewhere given the amount of support it's got (Thinking maybe FNaF 1-3 here? Who knows, I'm just kind of spewing out words here at this point)

Originally posted by Psychotic Ninja:

Oh, I'm sorry, let me re-assess my biases. Aaand re-assessed. Yeah, it still sounds like people have unintendedly produced garbage in this sub genre, people are tired of getting their hopes up, only to find out the game they were excited for didn't meet their expectations, and deemed said game as garbage. Yet, the games are still being made cause "maybe this one will crack the code" and be the next FNAF. Then there are those, like you, with their own biases (yes, everyone has biases, it's normal) that can't say anything negative about anything or anyone cause "it might hurt their feelings" or "they put in a lot of time and effort" or some other surface level reasoning. People are burned, people have been hurt before. People are tired of the same thing being reproduced by different people. People are seeing the red flags, and are rightfully calling them out. It's people like you and OP who are blind to the potential truth that this could end up, like the majority of others in this sub genre, being garbage, because you "don't want to hurt people's feelings" or whatever. Again, could I be wrong, and this ends up being the next FNAF, or better? Sure, but statistically scientifically speaking, odds are it's going to be garbage. Not saying the devs should abandon the game, just at least they should ask themselves "why" are they making the game, and "what's something new" they're bringing to the table.

Aaaand yeah, nail in the coffin with this one. You're (assuming you haven't even read into the context of the conversation) completely refusing the vagueness of how and why games are made with your seemingly corporate way of thought about said games. The whole point was that this issue stems from a personal issue rather than a “professional” one, implicitly assuming the developer's intentions thinking they want to “crack the code” is honestly laughable at best and dense at worst. I've never ever said (my words) that I myself don't have biases. I can and will say that yeah, some parts of this entire situation are kind of ass? e.g. the glitching effects in the trailers, poor mismanagement in the official Discord, the clear Dev Console in the screenshots, and the kid's character design in-game is just kind of weird and ass. If you've even watched the part of the video I've linked, then you know “same thing being reproduced by different people.” is just wrong. The only thing I'm “blind to” maybe is the constant negativity people like you bring, which then devolves into a completely reductive view of what game development is. Cuz what I'm seeing is a Work In Progress game, with no marked price, BTW, that clearly has a lot of love and passion put into it. If that's not clear enough, then I don't know what you're seeing. Being “the next FNaF” should not be the goal here, creating something that you at least enjoy should be, which is what you seem to be missing, cuz asking “'why' are they making the game,” when the answer should be because it's enjoyable.

[Squiddu]

Originally posted by GasmisenFeik:

that clearly has a lot of love and passion put into it.

These are the kind of phrases that bring people like that other guy to start ranting. Plenty of games have had great, maybe even stellar marketing for them, with high budgets (as to be expected of marketing in games nowadays), and yet the game itself is still low quality. Mascot horror thrives on this concept, it's called *mascot* horror for a reason. They're being a bit aggressive about it, but they are completely valid to be worried. Just because it has pretty window dressings says nothing about the quality of the actual game, and in a genre filled with "good marketing, bad game", we have every right to be skeptical until proven otherwise (while an even smaller subset, including me, will just applaud the animators while we wait). Immediately assuming the game is made with passion based on marketing material makes you sound more blind to the potential disappointment.
I must stress, though, noone should EVER attack the devs, not this early. We should be skeptical, as this is a very formulaic, if nice-looking, start for a game of this genre, but we don't have anywhere near enough footage or info to guarentee it'll be bad or speak ill of the devs.

[GasmisenFeik]

Originally posted by Squiddu:

These are the kind of phrases that bring people like that other guy to start ranting. Plenty of games have had great, maybe even stellar marketing for them, with high budgets (as to be expected of marketing in games nowadays), and yet the game itself is still low quality. Mascot horror thrives on this concept, it's called *mascot* horror for a reason. They're being a bit aggressive about it, but they are completely valid to be worried. Just because it has pretty window dressings says nothing about the quality of the actual game, and in a genre filled with "good marketing, bad game", we have every right to be skeptical until proven otherwise (while an even smaller subset, including me, will just applaud the animators while we wait). Immediately assuming the game is made with passion based on marketing material makes you sound more blind to the potential disappointment.

Yeah, you're right about this, like I've said in my original comment “It's so hard not to just go out on people,” and I kind of went out, so I apologize, my main issue was what you said/illuded to later on here:

Originally posted by Squiddu:

I must stress, though, noone should EVER attack the devs, not this early. We should be skeptical, as this is a very formulaic, if nice-looking, start for a game of this genre, but we don't have anywhere near enough footage or info to guarentee it'll be bad or speak ill of the devs.

I try not to speak ill of devs as much as I can, and try not to assume others' intentions, since that's just plain rude in my opinion. So seeing “that other guy” implicitly assume the devs intentions or unfairly compare them to an established person like Scott Cawthon just sent me over the edge, so I apologize for that as well.

I'm trying to temper my expectations too, I just find it unhealthy to always “have a guard up” when tackling something as unstable as a game release, so I try to have the benefit of the doubt. (e.g. for things like Tower Unite, Beastieball, etc, even when watching Nintendo Directs and such) I might be insane, but I just get reminded of Anton Ego from Ratatouille when I see people immediately write a negative critique of something when it isn't even out yet; cough Giggleland will fail, and here's why: cough I'm just tired of all the negativity, honestly? I can see the animators put their all into the trailers and I don't want that to be squandered, ya feel?

Edit: My fiancé hates when I do this, so I'll probably leave it here, I think I apologized enough, cuz damn that was stupid of me to get enraged. Might respond if needed, might not, I'm just gonna wait with bated breath for more news of this game in the meantime, maybe get my hopes up a bit as a treat?

[Stalvern]

Originally posted by GasmisenFeik:

I'm trying to temper my expectations too, I just find it unhealthy to always “have a guard up” when tackling something as unstable as a game release, so I try to have the benefit of the doubt.

Being uninterested in a lazy gimmick the millionth time around isn't having your guard up. It's not like people are hoping it'll be good but afraid that they'll be let down. They are seeing the obvious, that it's junk for twelve-year-olds and Markiplier, and moving on.

[BebopCola!]

Originally posted by GasmisenFeik:

It's so hard not to just go out on people, and ruin the civility of conversation seeing all of these brain-dead, bad-faith takes on what the game is going to be/what the game is, honestly? I haven't seen a bunch of people immediately dog pile a game that's been recently announced to be coming/being made since the more recent FNaF games.

Which honestly makes me worried that people are beginning to think that being original means you can't take inspiration from other games, shows, movies, etc.— (Which brings to mind this video I've watched from bobvids that covers this exact thing (3:47-4:47))Like, yeah, Mascot Horror as a genre has a lot of unoriginal, copy cat, lazy eggs in the basket, but does that mean all of them are bad? Does that mean you can automatically say it's bad just because it's Mascot Horror and make crass comparisons to already established games? I feel like I'm going insane here, damn!

It's easy. Many of those types of people have no offline life, or that life sucks that they need to bring their negativity onto a project to feel better about themselves, and frame it as a "critique".

It's one thing to be wary about the game, given the genre and tropes, but to immediately dismiss it as "garbage" because of genre fatigue is disrespectful and frankly, ignorant. It hasn't been released yet, and you're already dismissing it.

[yeatboy98]

what the heck am i looking at