Choices, Decisions & Consequences

[[PHC-MC]Septic]

Is anyone else expecting decisions that you make in the game to have more of an impact on the world at large? To clarify; I remember seeing the various trailers for Deus Ex, with one of them standing out as Elias Toufexis narrates the different ways to play the game and at one point, he mentions 'decisions' , with the camera focusing on a part of Prague that first looks run down, then the same part again, but all shiny & clean, then lastly the same but in flames. I kind of took this as given, that basically running around shooting everyone would equate to either the run-down look of the city, or being sneaky and leaving people alive would make the city appear 'nice' and not buring.

So, I'm playing the game, ensuring that I avoid conflict wherever possible and use non-leathal takedowns where I have no other choice, but I've noticed 2 things ***POSSIBLE MINOR SPOILERS AHEAD*** 1- the City is now on fire and 2- everyone I speak to & every newspaper article I read, depicts my Adam Jensen as being a mass murdering psychopath, despite my only using non-leathal takedowns (so, the body has zzz next to it, instead of a skull) which is really frustrating, as it kind of invalidates my gameplay, essentially meaning I've been given the illusion of choice.

Ideally, I'd like for this to be some kind of bug I guess, something Square Enix/Eidos will patch shortly. The other thing that could impact the above I suppose, is side quests; I realised I missed a few before flying to Golem City, and then relising I couldn't do them once I got back - standard fare for a Deus Ex game, I remember the same format from all the previous games so I've only myself to blame there. The only caveat in both is that I'd imagine that the only way to get this work in either case would be to create a new game, which would be annoying.

To summarise, I guess I just want to know if anyone else had the same a) expectations and b) the same experience whilst playing?

[Daddy]

Yeah made a post about this, the game seems to think there are only 2 options for missions.

Ghost: dont touch anyone or get seen
Guns blazing: murder everything

Even if you never get seen and only knock out a few people the game thinks there was a huge firefight and you went full frontal assault.

Its not just the papers either if it was that would be clever (propaganda), but its Jensen and npcs
who are like "did you have to kill them" and Jensen is like "they shot first" despite nobody dying, seeing me or anybody firing anything.

[Hiei-]

Even the first Deus Ex was also like that. Even if you go non-lethal, the troops who arrived at the end of the first level (for example) kills everybody xD

[RvB Churchaboose]

yea they all seem to have meaningful consequences.

[[PHC-MC]Septic]

Originally posted by Hiei-:

Even the first Deus Ex was also like that. Even if you go non-lethal, the troops who arrived at the end of the first level (for example) kills everybody xD

I vaguely remember a sarcastic guard at the front desk, criticising me for not killing anyone. I also remember dismembering him on my way out of UNATCO in retailiation.

[[PHC-MC]Septic]

Well, I guess I must have mis-interpreted the trailers then. A pity, that was a big selling point for me - the idea that my actions had a larger impact outside of narrative & dialogue.

[Hiei-]

Originally posted by PHC-MCSeptic:

Originally posted by Hiei-:

Even the first Deus Ex was also like that. Even if you go non-lethal, the troops who arrived at the end of the first level (for example) kills everybody xD

I vaguely remember a sarcastic guard at the front desk, criticising me for not killing anyone. I also remember dismembering him on my way out of UNATCO in retailiation.

I'm actually playing it and some rare NPC react to the fact you killed people or not but there are still a lot of inconsistencies like the example I given. Like the armory guard which sometimes say you killed too much people and that it won't give you more ammos and when the renforts arrive at Liberty Island, they kill everyone even if you spared all the ennemies xD

About choices and games, I'm not sure I saw one video game yet where the experience drastically changed because of choice (and I play video games since a while, near 30 years).

[Daddy]

I did a little experimenting on the 1st golem mission, did it stealth twice.

1st run, stealth no kills
2nd run stealth 2 kills

both time i got commended for holding back.

So Im not sure how the game determines whether you went full bloodbath or not, since on the previous mission I got told off for killing people despite not killing anyone.

[SavagE]

Originally posted by Akahige:

I did a little experimenting on the 1st golem mission, did it stealth twice.

1st run, stealth no kills
2nd run stealth 2 kills

both time i got commended for holding back.

So Im not sure how the game determines whether you went full bloodbath or not, since on the previous mission I got told off for killing people despite not killing anyone.

Maybe you killed dudes they didnt like or care about ;D

[MaximumBlade]

Originally posted by PHC-MCSeptic:

Is anyone else expecting decisions that you make in the game to have more of an impact on the world at large? To clarify; I remember seeing the various trailers for Deus Ex, with one of them standing out as Elias Toufexis narrates the different ways to play the game and at one point, he mentions 'decisions' , with the camera focusing on a part of Prague that first looks run down, then the same part again, but all shiny & clean, then lastly the same but in flames. I kind of took this as given, that basically running around shooting everyone would equate to either the run-down look of the city, or being sneaky and leaving people alive would make the city appear 'nice' and not buring.

So, I'm playing the game, ensuring that I avoid conflict wherever possible and use non-leathal takedowns where I have no other choice, but I've noticed 2 things ***POSSIBLE MINOR SPOILERS AHEAD*** 1- the City is now on fire and 2- everyone I speak to & every newspaper article I read, depicts my Adam Jensen as being a mass murdering psychopath, despite my only using non-leathal takedowns (so, the body has zzz next to it, instead of a skull) which is really frustrating, as it kind of invalidates my gameplay, essentially meaning I've been given the illusion of choice.

Ideally, I'd like for this to be some kind of bug I guess, something Square Enix/Eidos will patch shortly. The other thing that could impact the above I suppose, is side quests; I realised I missed a few before flying to Golem City, and then relising I couldn't do them once I got back - standard fare for a Deus Ex game, I remember the same format from all the previous games so I've only myself to blame there. The only caveat in both is that I'd imagine that the only way to get this work in either case would be to create a new game, which would be annoying.

To summarise, I guess I just want to know if anyone else had the same a) expectations and b) the same experience whilst playing?

You're thinking of Dishonored. Low vs High Chaos runs. High Chaos (if you kill people) makes the city look bad with more enemies/guards/mice/weepers to deal with.

Your choices do affect certain outcomes during the game though. For example, if you go for the bank rather than the bomber, you are able to save a main character near the end of the game.

[WangtorioJackson]

Getting any kind of "mass murdering pyschopath" dialogue about Jensen when you have gone completely stealth/non-lethal is a bug. It's happening to a lot of people, yes, but that doesn't mean it's not a bug. Because others, such as myself, have experienced the dialogue the way it should be. I went completely stealth/non-lethal for Ruzicka and Golem and I have not experienced anyone alledging that Jensen is a psychopath, and I have gotten complimented on holding back, and Jensen has told others that he went in, accomplished the mission, and went out, not being seen.

So, to anyone using this bug to complain about how your actions don't have approporiate consequences, stop. You are using a bug to judge gameplay as though it is the baseline. It is not.

[Kestrel Hudson]

Originally posted by Hiei-:

About choices and games, I'm not sure I saw one video game yet where the experience drastically changed because of choice (and I play video games since a while, near 30 years).

Witcher 2?
edit:
oh, and Avatar the game, though the game itself was mediocre at best.
edit 2:
Here are a few more examples from my PSX youth:
Front Mission 3, Ace Combat 3 (japanese verison) and Colony Wars.