Character customisation?

[Kai]

Apparently theres a recent noise in the dues ex community for the need for character customisation for a future deus ex for some reason, if and when that happens.

Just to put a stop to that, NO we dont want character customisation, it was probably the weakest part of the original games. The one thing if not among several things the prequels did better than the original, was its characters and the rock solid narrative, except the multiple endings.

Just stick with Adam, like Snake in Metal Gear, character customisation doesnt make sense in Dues ex, like it doesnt in Thief and every other protagonist driven game. Believe it or not, Adam is this franchise's face.

[John Doe]

Agreed

[Roland the Gunner]

I mean the original had different races for jc, could name him differently (although his JC Denton codename would always stay) and it was planned to have a gender swap. Which was even brought to life with a mod, so yeah, Deus Ex should have some slight customisation as it's in line with the OG.

[Simon]

Did they re-voice JC in the mod?

[Kai]

Originally posted by pablo:

I mean the original had different races for jc, could name him differently (although his JC Denton codename would always stay) and it was planned to have a gender swap. Which was even brought to life with a mod, so yeah, Deus Ex should have some slight customisation as it's in line with the OG.

Devil may cry was supposed to be Resident Evil 4 but it wasn't, so it isn't. JCs race was confirmed in Invisible War. And since they are all possibly clones of Jenson, those customisation are pointless, have been for 20 years.

C2077 should be evident enough why a created character V can never compete against a preset written character like Geralt.

[MILKElikeCAT]

The difference between 2077 and Deus Ex.
Deus Ex: The protagonist is Adam. If the protagonist can customize the game, those who originally supported it may be disgusted. It's like Iron Man "Anthony Edward Stark" was replaced by someone else. This example happened in "DMC", I didn't start playing until the white hair dlc appeared. This is really interesting, but it also diminished my interest in "Devil May Cry".
But like a spider man, it is not clear who the protagonist is, and the change will be less disgusting.

2077: There is no protagonist problem in this game...The game is more bugs make it hard to play.
The problem with the other is that although the game can customize characters and clothing matching, the game uses a first-person perspective.
So the answer is obvious from the first-person perspective, it is not the game character that has happened, so players cannot look at the game with a funny mentality,It happens to yourself that will make the player angry.
To be honest, there is no need to customize characters and costumes in the game,Because of level restrictions and clothing restrictions, it is also difficult to make yourself look good or match what you want.
The above is my definition of the role of the game.
2077 is a good game, but
Finally, this is my personal opinion:

warn ↓

2077 is a cartoon game. The story of a better world !

I also like to play the game of "Saints Row: The Third"and "Saints Row IV"

[Rialm]

Originally posted by Kai:

The one thing if not among several things the prequels did better than the original,

I do agree that the best thing about HR and then MD compare to the original is Adam.
I like to see how Adam respond any situation, despite the fact that there might be two ways
to express his feeling one with rudeness the other one being a bit more gentle.

I like JC but JC definitely feels more like a RPG character. I don't think that he is a cop or anything. It does mostly what the player wants. But Adam has a personality or a past. For example in MD, I can not play lethal. why would Adam start killing cops while also working for the Interpol? In Deus Ex 1, JC will do anything.

Would I mind if they make a remake of Deus Ex and make a character customization like Dark Souls? No, and if that the case I hope that his brother is exactly as my character(that's how I imagine how clones are).
But in the case of Adam, it would not make any sense because Adam has a past, it seems to have a way to sort things.

Originally posted by Kai:

C2077 should be evident enough why a created character V can never compete against a preset written character like Geralt.

I disagree, Fallout, Skyrim do a great job creating a character and not having a preset written character. Even the nameless hero in Gothic.
Would it be cool to make a customization character in Witcher? Hell no, that's Geralt's story.

[Kai]

Originally posted by Rialm:

Originally posted by Kai:

C2077 should be evident enough why a created character V can never compete against a preset written character like Geralt.

I disagree, Fallout, Skyrim do a great job creating a character and not having a preset written character. Even the nameless hero in Gothic.
Would it be cool to make a customization character in Witcher? Hell no, that's Geralt's story.

And deus ex was JC's story too. Nobody felt like they are playing as themselves like they do in traditional RPGs, everyone was playing as this Paul's smug younger brother JC. When I said character customisation was the weakest in the originals, thats what I meant, because it made the entire character creation pointless. And it was then canonized a year later that the white guy was the canon JC. Same with Invisible war, the male Alex is canon, making that female option pointless. So whats the point of these character creation tools when its not a traditional rpg, it only hurts the narrative.

When i compared it to C2077, i wasnt comparing character creation vs preset characters in general because you cannot, its subjective on many levels. I was making a point when the story is protagonist driven, its better to have preset character than character creation. Not at a single point I felt like I was roleplaying as myself in C2077, despite trying to make him look as much as myself, I was still playing as this street talking merc V. I played a second time as the default V from the trailers and it felt so much better, probably wouldve been even a lot better if they just stuck to a preset V like they did with Geralt.

So my point, Stick with Jensen, or bring Paul in the next trilogy or whatever, deus ex doesnt need character creation. Warren Spector was only trying to fill this game with as much freedom and options as possible, which is great on a gameplay perspective but it was narratively shortsighted. Because, later he had to retcon all those other options and stick to one string anyway.

[Roland the Gunner]

Originally posted by Kai:

Originally posted by Rialm:

I disagree, Fallout, Skyrim do a great job creating a character and not having a preset written character. Even the nameless hero in Gothic.
Would it be cool to make a customization character in Witcher? Hell no, that's Geralt's story.

And deus ex was JC's story too. Nobody felt like they are playing as themselves like they do in traditional RPGs, everyone was playing as this Paul's smug younger brother JC. When I said character customisation was the weakest in the originals, thats what I meant, because it made the entire character creation pointless. And it was then canonized a year later that the white guy was the canon JC. Same with Invisible war, the male Alex is canon, making that female option pointless. So whats the point of these character creation tools when its not a traditional rpg, it only hurts the narrative.

When i compared it to C2077, i wasnt comparing character creation vs preset characters in general because you cannot, its subjective on many levels. I was making a point when the story is protagonist driven, its better to have preset character than character creation. Not at a single point I felt like I was roleplaying as myself in C2077, despite trying to make him look as much as myself, I was still playing as this street talking merc V. I played a second time as the default V from the trailers and it felt so much better, probably wouldve been even a lot better if they just stuck to a preset V like they did with Geralt.

So my point, Stick with Jensen, or bring Paul in the next trilogy or whatever, deus ex doesnt need character creation. Warren Spector was only trying to fill this game with as much freedom and options as possible, which is great on a gameplay perspective but it was narratively shortsighted. Because, later he had to retcon all those other options and stick to one string anyway.

Customisation for inclusivity, lore and story will stick to one. Same stuff with KOTOR etc. Just some flexibility in this department won't hurt the game or the narrative in a long run. However, for any of that to have sense we would need a non Adam deus ex, as someone said earlier, it's Adams story rn, and it should stay that way for a sequel.

[Kai]

Originally posted by pablo:

Originally posted by Kai:

And deus ex was JC's story too. Nobody felt like they are playing as themselves like they do in traditional RPGs, everyone was playing as this Paul's smug younger brother JC. When I said character customisation was the weakest in the originals, thats what I meant, because it made the entire character creation pointless. And it was then canonized a year later that the white guy was the canon JC. Same with Invisible war, the male Alex is canon, making that female option pointless. So whats the point of these character creation tools when its not a traditional rpg, it only hurts the narrative.

When i compared it to C2077, i wasnt comparing character creation vs preset characters in general because you cannot, its subjective on many levels. I was making a point when the story is protagonist driven, its better to have preset character than character creation. Not at a single point I felt like I was roleplaying as myself in C2077, despite trying to make him look as much as myself, I was still playing as this street talking merc V. I played a second time as the default V from the trailers and it felt so much better, probably wouldve been even a lot better if they just stuck to a preset V like they did with Geralt.

So my point, Stick with Jensen, or bring Paul in the next trilogy or whatever, deus ex doesnt need character creation. Warren Spector was only trying to fill this game with as much freedom and options as possible, which is great on a gameplay perspective but it was narratively shortsighted. Because, later he had to retcon all those other options and stick to one string anyway.

Customisation for inclusivity, lore and story will stick to one. Same stuff with KOTOR etc. Just some flexibility in this department won't hurt the game or the narrative in a long run. However, for any of that to have sense we would need a non Adam deus ex, as someone said earlier, it's Adams story rn, and it should stay that way for a sequel.

Well for one thing, KOTOR, fallout, skyrim etc are rpgs, Deus ex isnt. Inclusivity isnt a factor in an immersive sim, people should stick to rpgs if thats all they care for and stop asking other genres to appeal to their needs.

[Rialm]

Originally posted by Kai:

And deus ex was JC's story too. Nobody felt like they are playing as themselves like they do in traditional RPGs, everyone was playing as this Paul's smug younger brother JC. .

Yes, I understand what you are saying. It has been already 20 years, the story of Deus Ex is the story of JC. That's why at this point I still name my character JC not as someone else.

What I'm saying it's how I interpret the character and why I would not care much if I had the power to customize, I did not feel while playing JC that JC had a story or a choice given, more like the player choose his path. I feel that it could have been design as anyone else and I could choose what to do with him. That's how I picture JC, more like any other character I have made in Skyrim or in Fallout. It's just a character with cool voice acting and sunglasses.
But in the case of Adam, It would be strange, because he has more a back story than JC. Changing Adam would be like changing the story of Ciri and Geralt etc

Originally posted by Kai:

I played a second time as the default V from the trailers and it felt so much better,

That's why in Mass Effect I choose female Shepard because she looks already cool.
In Fallout, It's more like other RPG I change everything. (FO4 is a bit messy, because it's a RPG with a character with a story that was not finished.)

[Kai]

Originally posted by Rialm:

Originally posted by Kai:

And deus ex was JC's story too. Nobody felt like they are playing as themselves like they do in traditional RPGs, everyone was playing as this Paul's smug younger brother JC. .

Yes, I understand what you are saying. It has been already 20 years, the story of Deus Ex is the story of JC. That's why at this point I still name my character JC not as someone else.

What I'm saying it's how I interpret the character and why I would not care much if I had the power to customize, I did not feel while playing JC that JC had a story or a choice given, more like the player choose his path. I feel that it could have been design as anyone else and I could choose what to do with him. That's how I picture JC, more like any other character I have made in Skyrim or in Fallout. It's just a character with cool voice acting and sunglasses.
But in the case of Adam, It would be strange, because he has more a back story than JC. Changing Adam would be like changing the story of Ciri and Geralt etc

Originally posted by Kai:

I played a second time as the default V from the trailers and it felt so much better,

That's why in Mass Effect I choose female Shepard because she looks already cool.
In Fallout, It's more like other RPG I change everything. (FO4 is a bit messy, because it's a RPG with a character with a story that was not finished.)

Look at this way, which characters have a personality and can be portrayed in 3rd person as an NPC?

1: Actual written characters with a personality with only slight deviations by player choices
Adam Jensen
Geralt
Corvo Attano
Garrett

2: Whereas RPG characters where its completely player driven and almost impossible to portray
Dragonborn
Vault survivor from Fallout
Commander Shepard
Warden from Dragon age
or basically any RPG character

JC belongs in the written character category because he is, and customizing him has no effect on his character, behaviour his personality or the Deus Ex lore, he is the JC everyone knows alike, not different how you play him.

Playing as an asian JC or a woman JC is not only wrong and pointless because JC is already established, it destroys the 20 year narrative across all games just for some newcomers who for some reason have never played or liked Deus ex till now, but having a woman character is gonna magically pull them in, is that what a developer should be aiming for anyway? Its called alienating your fans and audience and selling out for some cheap marketing points. We all know what happens when you market wrong.

[Rialm]

Originally posted by Kai:

Playing as an asian JC

Yeah but in Deus Ex 1, technically speaking, not talking about lore or anything else you can change the color of the skin of JC. And the cool part is that because JC is just a clone, Paul will also look like JC. And I play always as JC because he looks already cool.

I'm just saying how I will react if they put a customization in Deus Ex 1. I would not care and I would not be surprise.
if they end up doing it just to appease people that follows an agenda, it's going to annoy me mostly because they wouldn't care about the game.
And I just don't care about all the politics that lately devs are trying to put in their games. I always liked Lara Croft, Elaine Marley, Elizabeth, Ciri, Marie from Silent HIll 2 etc It seems that they want make us think that magically there were not good female characters because old devs did not give them a chance. Which is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Kai]

Originally posted by Rialm:

Originally posted by Kai:

Playing as an asian JC

Yeah but in Deus Ex 1, technically speaking, not talking about lore or anything else you can change the color of the skin of JC. And the cool part is that because JC is just a clone, Paul will also look like JC. And I play always as JC because he looks already cool.

I'm just saying how I will react if they put a customization in Deus Ex 1. I would not care and I would not be surprise.
if they end up doing it just to appease people that follows an agenda, it's going to annoy me mostly because they wouldn't care about the game.
And I just don't care about all the politics that lately devs are trying to put in their games. I always liked Lara Croft, Elaine Marley, Elizabeth, Ciri, Marie from Silent HIll 2 etc It seems that they want make us think that magically there were not good female characters because old devs did not give them a chance. Which is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Thats exactly what Im afraid of, getting rid of Jensen later with an agenda in mind rather than a genuine, honest, thought out idea, which is all thats happening nowadays, what will defile and kill this franchise, like it killed Dishonored, Bloodlines, Assassins creed and so many others. I dont trust them with a new character one bit.

Id rather have them stick to Jensen for more games, as there are 20+ years to account for between MD and the first Deus Ex and the entire Denton gene plot. Paul is appointed to Unatco in 2040, they can move on to him later. Regarding Paul's looks in current gen, it will be the same as Jensen as hes most probably the parent clone, so they can just use the same face model with minor alterations and new VA I guess.

Fun Fact: Jensen looks was designed based of all three Denton brothers, Paul's goatee, Alex's hairstyle and JC's basic appearance, mannerisms and diction. Whether its an homage or a direct indication that they have the same genetic template, its a given JC, Paul and Alex would look very identical to Jensen in current gen.

[Rialm]

It would be nice a Paul story, like the tale of the three brothers. Paul before what happens in Deus Ex, then JC what happens during Deus Ex, and then Alex what happens after Deus Ex. Like a trilogy.
It's a shame that it's an IP that could not reach all its potential. I would not have mind if they did the same that it's done in Yakuza, reusing one or two cities and just introducing more places just for missions. And letting the game evolve.

[Vechernyaya]

Adam Jensen is the worst thing that happened to the franchise and we seriously need some new characters and character customisation, with gender choice, the only thing the 2nd game did right, and now modded in the first game with the fantastic The Lay D Denton Project.