Deus Ex: Mankind Divided™

Deus Ex: Mankind Divided™

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droaan Dec 26, 2020 @ 10:28pm
Let me get some things straight here...
I love Deus Ex. I beat HR 3 times. I waited patiently for Mankind Divided.

Fast forward to now. I just beat it for the first time, because at launch I was so irritated by the horrible preorder campaign, and all the other drama surrounding it. So let's cut to the chase here:

The sequel is cancelled due to 'poor sales', but I know myself and many others who put off or avoided buying this game simply because of the corporate interference. So if I have this figured out, Squeenix basically impacted the sales with their greedy practices, and microtransaction garbage and then cancelled the sequel as if the game was at fault?

This game was fantastic. I don't even know why so many people griped about the story, saying it portrayed the subject matter poorly. I thought this game was awesome and I'm glad I finally played it. I think HR did some things better and MD did other things better.

I hope they change their mind, and let the devs deliver a sequel, because this series doesn't deserve this. Especially with how the Corpos just ruined Cyberpunk's potential... can we ever get these publishers to back off and let good developers produce great games? Frustrating.
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Showing 1-15 of 31 comments
Vassago Rain Dec 26, 2020 @ 10:54pm 
Everything you hear on the internet is true.
timestamp! Dec 26, 2020 @ 11:05pm 
Originally posted by apelike_smell:
So if I have this figured out, Squeenix basically impacted the sales with their greedy practices, and microtransaction garbage and then cancelled the sequel as if the game was at fault?
Well, it could be that they think that if this MTX stuff can't be done in games like Deus ex (for various reasons) then it makes no sense for them to produce such games.



Originally posted by apelike_smell:
I love Deus Ex.
...
I know myself and many others who put off or avoided buying this game simply because of the corporate interference.
...
This game was fantastic...I'm glad I finally played it.
...
The sequel is cancelled due to 'poor sales',
...
Frustrating.
Or maybe the fans are to blame and they shouldn't have overreacted this much. To this day you still see people coming here seeking support for their view on how bad MD is and how wise it is of them to think the game is bad because of those truly irrelevant consumables offered as DLC.
droaan Dec 27, 2020 @ 5:01am 
Originally posted by timestamp!:
Originally posted by apelike_smell:
So if I have this figured out, Squeenix basically impacted the sales with their greedy practices, and microtransaction garbage and then cancelled the sequel as if the game was at fault?
Well, it could be that they think that if this MTX stuff can't be done in games like Deus ex (for various reasons) then it makes no sense for them to produce such games.



Originally posted by apelike_smell:
I love Deus Ex.
...
I know myself and many others who put off or avoided buying this game simply because of the corporate interference.
...
This game was fantastic...I'm glad I finally played it.
...
The sequel is cancelled due to 'poor sales',
...
Frustrating.
Or maybe the fans are to blame and they shouldn't have overreacted this much. To this day you still see people coming here seeking support for their view on how bad MD is and how wise it is of them to think the game is bad because of those truly irrelevant consumables offered as DLC.

It is about principles, and honestly, I support someone skipping this game over the consumables BECAUSE they are irrelevant.
The devs worked hard to balance the game, and at the final hour Squeenix greedily has them throw in Praxis as an MTX. It is the most ridiculous thing. It is a board room of suits saying 'What can we monetize? We must monetize." and picking out the item that provides player progression.
Even I found it annoying enough to wait what... 5 years? When did this game come out? Anyway, you cannot fault the fans. It's just sad that the message the Executives got wasn't "do not tamper with our games", but instead, "We want live service games, please give us Avengers."
Last edited by droaan; Dec 27, 2020 @ 5:02am
droaan Dec 27, 2020 @ 5:03am 
Originally posted by Vassago Rain:
Everything you hear on the internet is true.

Is this sarcasm or are you saying the information I've read is true?
Vassago Rain Dec 27, 2020 @ 5:31am 
Square-Enix had nothing to do with this game's awful marketing and dumb memetransaction nonsense. It was an Eidos decision.
droaan Dec 27, 2020 @ 5:56am 
Originally posted by Vassago Rain:
Square-Enix had nothing to do with this game's awful marketing and dumb memetransaction nonsense. It was an Eidos decision.

Whoever is responsible, the moral of the story remains.
Eidos botched the launch with greed and players are paying for it because greedy executives can't see the forest for the trees.
timestamp! Dec 27, 2020 @ 6:05am 
Originally posted by apelike_smell:
It is about principles, and honestly, I support someone skipping this game over the consumables BECAUSE they are irrelevant.
The devs worked hard to balance the game, and at the final hour Squeenix greedily has them throw in Praxis as an MTX. It is the most ridiculous thing. It is a board room of suits saying 'What can we monetize? We must monetize." and picking out the item that provides player progression.
The MTX they added didn't change the game in the slightest.
It would have been understandable (the (over)reaction) if it did, but it didn't. It was another layer added on top of the existing game.

Basically, all this drama is over the added layer of monetisation that doesn't affect the game itself in any way, shape or form. You seem to support it... but feel frustrated over the consequences of it?

Originally posted by apelike_smell:
Eidos botched the launch with greed and players are paying for it because greedy executives can't see the forest for the trees.
Are you sure you do see the forest? Even 5 years later?
The forest is the game, the trees are you being frustrated for five years over something, in the grand scheme of things, insignificant.
Last edited by timestamp!; Dec 27, 2020 @ 6:09am
TheCollector Dec 27, 2020 @ 6:26am 
As I recall from memory :

The game also failed because of many players who did not understand the game and voted it down after release :
- the game offers main quests and side quests
- there are some mayor branching decisions so to see consequences and alternative scenarios you should replay the game with different choices
- the game offers a lot of secondary informations hidden in the game world
- the game offers different ways to solve situations (sneak, hack, persuade, climb, take out silently, direct assault)

Those players on release day rushed through the main story, either using stealth to cloak themselves and just run past enemies or used direct approach and gunned everybody down as in a shooter game and so finished main story within a few hours and then complained that the game is way too short. They completely ignored the game world and different approaches to explore and supposed that the only goal in the game is to take down the enemy boss asap. Their negative reports prevented many other players from buying after release. This put a lot of pressure on sales and probably led to a huge financial loss for Square Enix. Shortly after release the game was dumbed into a sale at very low price and Square Enix decided to concentrate more on Marvel universe, shift resources and pause Deus Ex series. As mentioned in many news around DX-MD release, the devs were already working on the final part of the trilogy for months and probably were half way through the project, so the 3rd game would have been published shortly after DX-MD if the game had been more successful.

Vassago Rain Dec 27, 2020 @ 6:32am 
One glance at steam's global achievement rate for the game will tell you all you need to know about the average deus ex player.
Once you've seen it, you can't unsee it, though.
droaan Dec 27, 2020 @ 7:37am 
Originally posted by timestamp!:
Originally posted by apelike_smell:
It is about principles, and honestly, I support someone skipping this game over the consumables BECAUSE they are irrelevant.
The devs worked hard to balance the game, and at the final hour Squeenix greedily has them throw in Praxis as an MTX. It is the most ridiculous thing. It is a board room of suits saying 'What can we monetize? We must monetize." and picking out the item that provides player progression.
The MTX they added didn't change the game in the slightest.
It would have been understandable (the (over)reaction) if it did, but it didn't. It was another layer added on top of the existing game.

Basically, all this drama is over the added layer of monetisation that doesn't affect the game itself in any way, shape or form. You seem to support it... but feel frustrated over the consequences of it?

Originally posted by apelike_smell:
Eidos botched the launch with greed and players are paying for it because greedy executives can't see the forest for the trees.
Are you sure you do see the forest? Even 5 years later?
The forest is the game, the trees are you being frustrated for five years over something, in the grand scheme of things, insignificant.

Let's not waste time talking opinions. You're not stating a fact and neither am I. From my perspective, corporate greed is what is killing the industry - shoehorning progression shortcuts and charging for them is a poor practice. I do not regret getting this game, and all dlc, years later for 6 dollars. I do not blame anyone who also waited this long, or continues to avoid the game because of it.

That's just how it is. It was unnecessary and the addition only serves to lessen the experience of playing the game while parting paying customers with yet more money. It isn't a great practice to support, and you should be thanking anyone who chose not to do so. Any message we can send we should. I am not a fan of needless mtx, nor am I a fan of 20 dollar gun skins and DLC packages that consist of material cut from the base game only to be sold down the road.

The well is poison. You can drink or you can avoid it, but you can't pretend you have the situation sorted. It's more complicate than that.
droaan Dec 27, 2020 @ 7:40am 
Originally posted by TheCollector:
As I recall from memory :

The game also failed because of many players who did not understand the game and voted it down after release :
- the game offers main quests and side quests
- there are some mayor branching decisions so to see consequences and alternative scenarios you should replay the game with different choices
- the game offers a lot of secondary informations hidden in the game world
- the game offers different ways to solve situations (sneak, hack, persuade, climb, take out silently, direct assault)

Those players on release day rushed through the main story, either using stealth to cloak themselves and just run past enemies or used direct approach and gunned everybody down as in a shooter game and so finished main story within a few hours and then complained that the game is way too short. They completely ignored the game world and different approaches to explore and supposed that the only goal in the game is to take down the enemy boss asap. Their negative reports prevented many other players from buying after release. This put a lot of pressure on sales and probably led to a huge financial loss for Square Enix. Shortly after release the game was dumbed into a sale at very low price and Square Enix decided to concentrate more on Marvel universe, shift resources and pause Deus Ex series. As mentioned in many news around DX-MD release, the devs were already working on the final part of the trilogy for months and probably were half way through the project, so the 3rd game would have been published shortly after DX-MD if the game had been more successful.

It isn't a game that appeals to everyone, and I'm sure many didn't engage it properly and then dogged the game based on their ignorance. I have been through a few of these games a few times each, and I got a solid 40 hours out of my experience, with many missions, lots of world building and exploration and a lot of bosses talked straight. Loved it. Wish more people gave it the proper chance, but some don't have the patience to stop and read every pocket secretary, check computers and chat up NPC's. Their loss.
droaan Dec 27, 2020 @ 7:40am 
Originally posted by Vassago Rain:
One glance at steam's global achievement rate for the game will tell you all you need to know about the average deus ex player.
Once you've seen it, you can't unsee it, though.

haha. I'm afraid. Let me guess: A lot of people going full lethal, blowing through the content and missing all the things that make the game shine?
timestamp! Dec 27, 2020 @ 7:57am 
Originally posted by apelike_smell:
The well is poison. You can drink or you can avoid it, but you can't pretend you have the situation sorted. It's more complicate than that.
This is a relatively new global internet hate culture or something, haters united?
E.g. this person https://steamcommunity.com/app/337000/discussions/0/3001051775901990371/#c3001051775916912847 simply ignores the facts and goes with the usual "they ruined everything".
This is the crowd that wants to ignore facts and/or twist them to fuel hate or just drama. This is like their food or something. Even if they are right about this, they can't move on or move on only to hate on something else.
droaan Dec 27, 2020 @ 8:12am 
Originally posted by timestamp!:
Originally posted by apelike_smell:
The well is poison. You can drink or you can avoid it, but you can't pretend you have the situation sorted. It's more complicate than that.
This is a relatively new global internet hate culture or something, haters united?
E.g. this person https://steamcommunity.com/app/337000/discussions/0/3001051775901990371/#c3001051775916912847 simply ignores the facts and goes with the usual "they ruined everything".
This is the crowd that wants to ignore facts and/or twist them to fuel hate or just drama. This is like their food or something. Even if they are right about this, they can't move on or move on only to hate on something else.

Are you reading what I am typing? I'm talking about the industry as a whole. The industry is filled with anti consumer practices and mtx. Indisputable.

They didn't ruin the game for me, because I've played these games and I wouldn't waste money on praxis kits. But their inclusion alone is a deal breaker for many, on principle or the fact that they have low self control and are susceptible to those things. it also is hugely disrespectful to the devs, who work hard to balance their game only so corps can stick shortcuts in, which ruin the experience.
Last edited by droaan; Dec 27, 2020 @ 8:14am
Simon Dec 27, 2020 @ 2:32pm 
Originally posted by timestamp!:
The MTX they added didn't change the game in the slightest.
It would have been understandable (the (over)reaction) if it did, but it didn't. It was another layer added on top of the existing game.

Basically, all this drama is over the added layer of monetisation that doesn't affect the game itself in any way, shape or form.

Having beaten the game I can see that that that is very true, but in many or even most other games (particularly in the mobile space) it isn’t, so you can forgive players for being wary, suspicious, or stand-offish particularly early on. It’s not always so black and white either.

But it wasn’t the only controversial thing around the launch. There were the consumable preorder bonuses/DLC, while many thought the whole Breach game was a waste of effort and resources that would better be spent on the game itself; and that it wasn’t that compelling anyway.

So I think it’s a valid choice to hold off, delay or reject games that employ these tactics in an effort to try to change the direction of the industry as a whole (as futile as that may be) and to not reward the developers/publishers of games that choose to jump on the micro transactions bandwagon, which was going gangbusters around that time. Anecdotally I feel like it’s having at least a minor to moderate effect and that the proliferation of MTX at the expense of the player experience is waning (or at least not continuing to worsen).

If it means a longer delay before we get another Deus Ex, then so be it. I’m confident we will eventually see another game because the franchise/brand still has a following and Cyberpunk (RIP) has only reinforced or enhanced interest in the themes/genre.
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Date Posted: Dec 26, 2020 @ 10:28pm
Posts: 31