LISA
"F*** you, Brad"
After reading a bunch of these threads, it seems the general consensus on the main character is that at best he's a great guy who's doing his best and that at worst he's a tragic fallen-from-grace character. I feel like I'm the only one who thinks he's a complete and total piece of ♥♥♥♥. He's a drug addict who has killed his friends, mentally abused his surrogate daughter and sort-of-surrogate son , wiped out entire villages just for being in his way, kidnapped, ransomed, and all that's if you make all the right decisions. He could also possibley get 3 people killed so that one girl doesn't get slightly wounded, set 5 orphans on fire, sell the people he's kidnapped to the creepy closet guy, and give up the life of arguabley the only nice guy left in Olathe for like 50 mags and a weapon you can't equip yet.

I get that he is technically doing it all for a "good" reason, but it becomes clear once you see who Rando is and what he can do that the entire point of the game is to re-make the same mistake he made years ago, only this time by murdering everyone. If he had gone alone with Rick, Sticky, and Cheeks' plan from the beginning and get her to a safe place (and away from them) while she was still an infant, even with all the lowlifes we meet in the game, I still think there's a really good chance everything would have turned out better than it did. Rando clearly has the best chance of keeping everyone under control and keeping Buddy safe (at least more than Brad).

I also realize that, just like with all the decisions in this game, there isn't an easy "fix it all" solution to the problem. Even with Rando's supervision and guidance, she probably would have gotten hurt a few times. But despite everything Brad did, I think it's safe to say she got pretty hurt anyway, probably far worse than anything that would have happened with the Wrath of the Red Skull backing her up. And now with every powerful person in Olathe either dead or Buzzo, is there really any chance for things to work out for her? I guess we'll see about that in the sequel, but I think with all the information we have now we can all come to our definitive conclusions about Brad.

Are Fly Minetti and I alone in thinking Brad is a total pile of garbage congealed and drizzled over a washed up drug addict with no sense of responsibility or empathy? Am I missing something that makes Brad somehow really commendable? Or is he really just the dirtbag I'm seeing him as?
Last edited by MegaLobsterFace; Feb 28, 2015 @ 11:54am
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Showing 1-15 of 148 comments
Ichidoge Feb 28, 2015 @ 1:31pm 
Well, I think the Joyless ending explained it. According to Buzzo, Joy will ♥♥♥♥ its user's head, making them lose control, rendering them unable to make choices for themselves and bringing out their inner desires. Brad has been taking Joy for who knows how many years; remember how he was taking those little blue pills seconds before hearing Buddy's cry for the first time? His inner desire was to become the good father Marty never was, and probably a good brother for Lisa. In fact, maybe he wanted the latter above all else, considering that near the end of the game, he was crying for Lisa, not Buddy. Drug addiction isn't a crime but a disease, and no one ever tried to comfort Brad... unless you count Sticky when Brad tried to get drugs from him. Sticky knew something was wrong, and even when he tried to help, Brad was already too used to the drug effect. I'm not trying to justify Brad's killing spree; sure, he attacked a lot of deranged, depraved men, but some of them didn't deserve to be killed, although one could say Brad attacked others in self-defense. Brad never had a loving family, never got the appreciation of his father, he didn't know how to show his affection to others; it's like trying to tell somebody with depression to simply stop feeling sad. Brad genuinely wanted to take care of Buddy in his own selfish way, but things went out of control. Also, he didn't set those orphans on fire on purpose, remember?
MegaLobsterFace Feb 28, 2015 @ 1:50pm 
Originally posted by E!Damnation:
Well, I think the Joyless ending explained it. According to Buzzo, Joy will ♥♥♥♥ its user's head, making them lose control, rendering them unable to make choices for themselves and bringing out their inner desires. Brad has been taking Joy for who knows how many years; remember how he was taking those little blue pills seconds before hearing Buddy's cry for the first time? His inner desire was to become the good father Marty never was, and probably a good brother for Lisa. In fact, maybe he wanted the latter above all else, considering that near the end of the game, he was crying for Lisa, not Buddy. Drug addiction isn't a crime but a disease, and no one ever tried to comfort Brad... unless you count Sticky when Brad tried to get drugs from him. Sticky knew something was wrong, and even when he tried to help, Brad was already too used to the drug effect. I'm not trying to justify Brad's killing spree; sure, he attacked a lot of deranged, depraved men, but some of them didn't deserve to be killed, although one could say Brad attacked others in self-defense. Brad never had a loving family, never got the appreciation of his father, he didn't know how to show his affection to others; it's like trying to tell somebody with depression to simply stop feeling sad. Brad genuinely wanted to take care of Buddy in his own selfish way, but things went out of control. Also, he didn't set those orphans on fire on purpose, remember?


That is absolute garbage. I had a pretty similar home life growing up, one parent not there, the other one an abusive ass, and neither of my 2 brothers were around to help me get through things. To this day I have high levels of anxiety, chronic depression, and find it almost impossible to talk to new people in a non-professional setting. None of that means anything. I can still be a good person after all of those things. Saying someone had a bad life is an excuse to make others' lives worse is the worst justification possible. It isn't an excuse to go on a drug binge, either, especially when you have friends who are trying to help you overcome the addiction. Just because Brad tried to be a better person, it doesn't excuse the fact he became just like Marty.

I think my own life is most of the reason I dislike Brad so much. I hate to agree with someone who potentially molested a child, but Sticky was right when he said falling down and giving in to the depression isn't right. You need to hold yourself higher than the things that caused you pain, you need to show them that they were wrong and that you can survive. But in the end, Brad didn't so that. He gave in to his own sadness and desperately tried to wring a tiny bit of fulfillment out of his life by basically imprisoning a girl he knew nothing about. Even if he wasn't violent, he was still hurting both Buddy and his 3 friends. The fact that Rick and Sticky had to basically run away with her, and that she trusted them more than Brad, just proves that those 3 weren't being treated much better than she was.

And in regards to the orphans, the player didn't do it on purpose. We, as players watching from a 2d perspective, couldn't tell a bucket of water apart from a bucket of oil. Brad, on the otherhand, can look inside. Did he look inside? Probably not? Even if he hadn't though, the water was more than likely just to douse the match, the entire bucket wasn't going to get used up putting that out. Even if it had been water Brad would have wasted their entire supply of clean water. If he had looked inside the bucket? Well, you can probably see why I don't value him very much.
Ichidoge Feb 28, 2015 @ 2:17pm 
Originally posted by MegaLobsterFace:
Originally posted by E!Damnation:
Well, I think the Joyless ending explained it. According to Buzzo, Joy will ♥♥♥♥ its user's head, making them lose control, rendering them unable to make choices for themselves and bringing out their inner desires. Brad has been taking Joy for who knows how many years; remember how he was taking those little blue pills seconds before hearing Buddy's cry for the first time? His inner desire was to become the good father Marty never was, and probably a good brother for Lisa. In fact, maybe he wanted the latter above all else, considering that near the end of the game, he was crying for Lisa, not Buddy. Drug addiction isn't a crime but a disease, and no one ever tried to comfort Brad... unless you count Sticky when Brad tried to get drugs from him. Sticky knew something was wrong, and even when he tried to help, Brad was already too used to the drug effect. I'm not trying to justify Brad's killing spree; sure, he attacked a lot of deranged, depraved men, but some of them didn't deserve to be killed, although one could say Brad attacked others in self-defense. Brad never had a loving family, never got the appreciation of his father, he didn't know how to show his affection to others; it's like trying to tell somebody with depression to simply stop feeling sad. Brad genuinely wanted to take care of Buddy in his own selfish way, but things went out of control. Also, he didn't set those orphans on fire on purpose, remember?


That is absolute garbage. I had a pretty similar home life growing up, one parent not there, the other one an abusive ass, and neither of my 2 brothers were around to help me get through things. To this day I have high levels of anxiety, chronic depression, and find it almost impossible to talk to new people in a non-professional setting. None of that means anything. I can still be a good person after all of those things. Saying someone had a bad life is an excuse to make others' lives worse is the worst justification possible. It isn't an excuse to go on a drug binge, either, especially when you have friends who are trying to help you overcome the addiction. Just because Brad tried to be a better person, it doesn't excuse the fact he became just like Marty.

I think my own life is most of the reason I dislike Brad so much. I hate to agree with someone who potentially molested a child, but Sticky was right when he said falling down and giving in to the depression isn't right. You need to hold yourself higher than the things that caused you pain, you need to show them that they were wrong and that you can survive. But in the end, Brad didn't so that. He gave in to his own sadness and desperately tried to wring a tiny bit of fulfillment out of his life by basically imprisoning a girl he knew nothing about. Even if he wasn't violent, he was still hurting both Buddy and his 3 friends. The fact that Rick and Sticky had to basically run away with her, and that she trusted them more than Brad, just proves that those 3 weren't being treated much better than she was.

And in regards to the orphans, the player didn't do it on purpose. We, as players watching from a 2d perspective, couldn't tell a bucket of water apart from a bucket of oil. Brad, on the otherhand, can look inside. Did he look inside? Probably not? Even if he hadn't though, the water was more than likely just to douse the match, the entire bucket wasn't going to get used up putting that out. Even if it had been water Brad would have wasted their entire supply of clean water. If he had looked inside the bucket? Well, you can probably see why I don't value him very much.

Sorry, I didn't want to offend you. However, not all people react to stimuli the same way; some people say life is hard but beautiful and keep living until the very end, but others... even if they have problems that could be solved with some help, sadly, they choose easy exits like drugs, or in the worst case, they kill themselves. Now, Sticky said he clicked with Brad because both of them had terrible parents, but when Brad fell down, Sticky kept his chin up. Sure, we don't really know what Sticky did to Buddy, and the heavy abuse/rape/molestation implications makes some of us hate Sticky. This scenario, a world in the brink of extinction, which can be saved by the last girl, is horribly depressing and sad. Yes, the Rando Army is the most powerful group in Olathe, and even when Rando is noble (your first meeting with him indicates that he probably is the nicest man in this decaying world), some of his men think he's too soft and would probably organize themselves to kill Rando and get Buddy for their own sick purposes.
With this, I'm trying to say that Brad dealt with the circumstantes his own way, hell-bent on protecting Buddy, but becoming the monster he hated in the first place. In fact, Brad could be afraid of any kind of sexual approach; some characters constantly mock him and tell him he 'isn't man enough to do what's need to be done', but in his mind, sex only leads to death, if Marty abusing/raping Lisa is any indication.
Once again, I'm not trying to defend Brad; my dad is a great man, but my grandpa beat him in a more or less daily basis. When I met my grandpa for the first time, he was kind to me and looked like a decent fellow. See? Not all people deal with the same thing in the same way, and some of them change once they see the error of their ways.
steelcoresoviet Feb 28, 2015 @ 2:29pm 
Originally posted by MegaLobsterFace:
Sticky was right when he said falling down and giving in to the depression isn't right. You need to hold yourself higher than the things that caused you pain, you need to show them that they were wrong and that you can survive.
So- don't consider the implications, put it behind you and full steam ahead. Got it.

Originally posted by MegaLobsterFace:

Brad, on the otherhand, can look inside. Did he look inside? Probably not? Even if he hadn't though, the water was more than likely just to douse the match, the entire bucket wasn't going to get used up putting that out. Even if it had been water Brad would have wasted their entire supply of clean water.
So- don't just charge blindly ahead, stop to consider the ramifications. Got it.

There's a real sense of ambiguity throughout the game, and Brad's front and center.
Ontan Feb 28, 2015 @ 2:50pm 
Yeah I agree too. It's a shame really. He caused nothing but trouble in Olathe and in the end it all didn't matter, he just ended up like the rest of the joy addicts such as Charmy and Beady. He destroyed a whole construction site just so he can get TNT (I'm not trying to be like Jonathan Mcintosh but still he could've just ASKED them for TNT) and he ruined the EWC just so he can please some dog pelt wearing maniac.

He also killed Marty, his father who is the ONLY person left in Olathe who actually understands Brad's problems. And I think the worst he'd ever done is burning the orphans, I know it was meant to be a comedic moment but if you think about it... These were the only children you see the in game besides the flashbacks and the prologue... It's kinda dark if you think about it... These could be the ONLY children left in Olathe.
Last edited by Ontan; Feb 28, 2015 @ 3:09pm
lazerpanther Feb 28, 2015 @ 3:39pm 
Originally posted by steelcoresoviet:

There's a real sense of ambiguity throughout the game, and Brad's front and center.

Exactly! The biggest question asked at the end of Lisa is "did I do the right thing?" Whether or not Brad is a good person isn't an easy question to answer. It isn't supposed to be. On the one hand, there's no excuse for the things he does and the people he kills. On the other hand, he is a victim of abuse, low parental involvement, and drug addiction. He's not a monster: he's sick. Both sides are perfectly valid. Lisa is compelling because, like all great works of fiction, of its ambiguity.
Last edited by lazerpanther; Feb 28, 2015 @ 3:41pm
MegaLobsterFace Feb 28, 2015 @ 4:31pm 
Originally posted by steelcoresoviet:
Originally posted by MegaLobsterFace:
Sticky was right when he said falling down and giving in to the depression isn't right. You need to hold yourself higher than the things that caused you pain, you need to show them that they were wrong and that you can survive.
So- don't consider the implications, put it behind you and full steam ahead. Got it.

Originally posted by MegaLobsterFace:

Brad, on the otherhand, can look inside. Did he look inside? Probably not? Even if he hadn't though, the water was more than likely just to douse the match, the entire bucket wasn't going to get used up putting that out. Even if it had been water Brad would have wasted their entire supply of clean water.
So- don't just charge blindly ahead, stop to consider the ramifications. Got it.

There's a real sense of ambiguity throughout the game, and Brad's front and center.
What part of not giving in to hopelessness translates to not considering the implications of your actions? That isn't what that meant at all, it's closer to the opposite. Learning from others' mistakes and actually considering if your own actions would hurt someone is the point, not just running into life without any abandon. You need to put things behind you but still make sure you don't repeat the same mistakes.

Originally posted by lazerpanther:
Exactly! The biggest question asked at the end of Lisa is "did I do the right thing?" Whether or not Brad is a good person isn't an easy question to answer. It isn't supposed to be. On the one hand, there's no excuse for the things he does and the people he kills. On the other hand, he is a victim of abuse, low parental involvement, and drug addiction. He's not a monster: he's sick. Both sides are perfectly valid. Lisa is compelling because, like all great works of fiction, of its ambiguity.

I don't see it as ambiguous at all. By the end of the game, he is literally a monster. As I said before, being a victim doesn't excuse victimizing others. And unless Brad was actually mentally ill, the drug addiction was still on him. He decided to cope with his life by taking the easy way out, which turned him into a shell, and when the normal pain killers apparently weren't enough and he switched to Joy, he should have realized he had a problem. Stopping an addiction isn't easy, but better than going deeper and deeper until the drug has more control over your body than your mind does.
Ichidoge Feb 28, 2015 @ 4:45pm 
All of us have our own opinion. Maybe Brad wasn't strong enough to cope with his life. You know, we know some people have problems and sometimes we genuinely want to help them, but some of them simply don't want help until it's too late. Some of them are so scarred, they think they don't matter and either think you're pitying them or they don't want you to 'waste your time on them'. In any case, Brad wasn't supposed to be the do-good hero of the story; he is a really, really flawed human being. Trying to learn from experience and becoming a better person is being human. Becoming a worst person because you didn't accept the help of others or simply kept making the same mistakes is being human. There are no monsters nor saints in the world, just human beings with wildly different ideologies, knowledge, strenghts and weaknesses.
Thug Dracula Mar 1, 2015 @ 9:37am 
Brad is as much of a piece of ♥♥♥♥ as you make him out to be and that's a fact. Consider that all of what you primarily mention are optional scenes. You don't have to kill anyone except Sticky as he forces himself into a fight with you.

All of the decisions Brad makes are -hard- decision that make it really difficult to tell whether he's a douchebag or not. Why can't we talk about how great of a person he is for sacrificing a limb to save someone he barely knows? What about that?

The ending is the saddest part of the game because his intense realization of how much he ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up let Joy just overcome him and start to make him go insane. He ends up killing one of the most important people in his life and may not even realize it until his (sort of) dying breath.

Brad is not a bad person. I don't think he is in the slightest. I think that he could have taken a different approach but it isn't his fault his drug of choice happened to be a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ super-soldier test.
Trogdom Mar 1, 2015 @ 12:43pm 
I dunno, if your friend admitted to kidnapping your daughter so a bunch of men could rape her to produce children, and then the next friend admitting that he raped her, I'd probably kill them too.
Void Mar 1, 2015 @ 12:51pm 
I think one of the overarching thenes of the story is that nobody is really evil, truly. Everyone alive tries to do the best they can with what they think is the right thing to do, but sadly some succumb to their weaknesses and it ends up affecting those around them. Brad, while in some cases being a very strong man, is also a very weak and damaged man emotionally. He's been the brunt of a lot of abuse and in turn has made many poor decisions as a result of trying to numb himself from said abuse. His escapist nature is what eventually leads to him abandonning Lisa to Marty's abusive and neglectful behavior, leading to her demise, so it's safe to assume that was his motivation in always wanting to be around to protect Buddy. So much so that he smothers her and keeps her isolated in a way that, ironically, is reminiscent of Lisa. Except, unlike Lisa, Buddy found a way to escape through the actions of her "uncles". At the end of the game, Brad, after realizing just how much trouble he's caused for Buddy just wants to know if he did the right thing or not, even when the results turned out so horrible for himself and those around him.
Last edited by Void; Mar 3, 2015 @ 11:51pm
Ichidoge Mar 1, 2015 @ 2:29pm 
I think MegaLobsterFace simpathizes with Buzzo. I'm not saying that's a bad, of course. Buzzo sees Brad as a monster, a murderer, and that's why he is always tormenting Brad. Buzzo might know something we don't; from what we know, we're assuming that Brad abandoned Lisa, leading to her commiting suicide, but what if Brad was already under the influences of drugs and accidentally or even intentionally killed her? He feels guilty, but we still don't know the exact reason. When Brad left Dusty behind, it's not obvious what's going through his head in that moment; he could be feeling guilty, maybe he doesn't know what to do, or maybe he didn't care enough about Dusty. No one knows yet, except Dingaling. I don't think he abandoned him, though, because when Brad "finds" Dusty again in the Snow Mountain area, Dusty is wearing bandages, so I think that's his last memory of Dusty.
MegaLobsterFace Mar 1, 2015 @ 3:52pm 
What in the world makes you think me not liking one character makes me crazy about their opposing force? Hating Brad doesn't not make Buzzo a murderous lunatic who hurts everyone he can to achieve his goal, no matter how unrelated they are to the thing he wants. Oh no, wait, that's still Brad. Whatever, same thing. Buddy is to Brad as Brad is to Buzzo. Just a subject of obsession that's used as justification or an excuse to make everything they do somehow righteous.

And that's what I don't get about all of these rationalizations being given here. As far as I'm concerned, Rando, Buddy, and maybe Terry are the only people in the entire game who are even slightly redeemable as valuable human beings, period. You all keep calling Brad "flawed" instead of "deranged" like is actually the case 90% of the time. Drug-fueled killing binges are not "flaws". People with relatable problems can still be bad people. Protagonist is not synonymous with good person. Queen Roger probably stuggled with homosexuality in a decidedly heteronormative world, both before and after the Flash, and he's still a murderous psycho. Geese has a funny name and talks in rhyme like a cartoon character, but he's still a serial killer. So why does having a drug addiction and an abusive father excuse Brad's constant abusive and violent behavior toward severyone else okay?

Originally posted by Der Kommissar:
Why can't we talk about how great of a person he is for sacrificing a limb to save someone he barely knows? What about that?

And another thing, not all situations are binary. There are solutions that can have multiple implications. Just like when we as players come to different reasons for making this choice, Brad didn't have to do this as a completely selfless act. One of the most common things I hear about this choice is that it makes you weigh the importance of back-up and support over the importance of one character's abilities. The exact same thought process can apply to Brad. He could have been weighing the importance of having someone like Rage or Nern backing him up against the importance of one of his arms. We can see that after he loses it, he can still do the majority of his karate attacks, as few of the useful ones rely on upper body strength, and he doesn't need any arms to do his fireball, which is by far the most useful thing he has. Despite the alternative being one-sidedly selfish, the decision to sacrifice your arm can still be construed as either an act of selfless kindness or an act of indirect self-preservation. I still think, no matter what, giving up the arm was the right thing to do, but all intentions aside, one good deed does not a hero make. Why can't we talk about how a flesh wound for Buddy is apparently 3 times more important than losing one of his own limbs? And how the life of Terry or Percy or Olan is equivalent to losing your inventory? Brad and Buzzo don't see the party members as friends, they see them as tools. Valuable tols, but tools.

Originally posted by Trogdom:
I dunno, if your friend admitted to kidnapping your daughter so a bunch of men could rape her to produce children, and then the next friend admitting that he raped her, I'd probably kill them too.

Well when you put it that way, of course it makes sense! Putting the lives of dozens upon dozens of people underneath preserving one girl's virginity is common sense!
If this were a real world setting, and an actual girl from actual Colorado were abducted from her father's home for breeding purposes, then the men responsible for that are probably undeserving of life. But this isn't a real scenario, it's post-end of the world. Buddy isn't just a girl anymore to these people, she's the last hope for all humans to survive. I doubt she's actually even the last woman alive, but to the people in this story she is the sole possibility for the entire human race's existence to continue. Of course she's not prepared for it, and of course the life she's trying to choose would be painful and probably mentally scarring to an ungodly degree, but what's the alternative? If Brad had taken her to Rando in the first place, the entire situation of everyone trying to get to her at once would have been almost certainly avoided. Brad was unstoppable by himself, imagine what he and Rando could have done working together to protect her. Even if she had been forced into something before she was ready, you can probably bet Rando would have not only ended the person who did it faster than you can sneeze, but, unlike Brad, he could have comforted Buddy and helped her recover from it. I feel like a broken record at this point, but Brad is the sole reason she's been forced into this position in the first place. The only good end for this story I can imagine at this point is that she'll be able to grow up in safety until she's either ready to take matters into her own hands or finds all the safe men and women Buzzo and Yado are probably keeping away from everyone else.
Miles Bluefalls Mar 1, 2015 @ 4:43pm 
People who play RPGs who get to "make decisions" for the main character tend to project something onto them. Hence, "he's not really THAT bad, you don't have to PLAY him bad".

...except the thing is, every time Brad needs to make a decision that really, really would make anything better, he more or less fillibusters the player, and does what he does.

In the end, Brad is a Failure, and the game is about a the miserable journey of broken guy going around breaking other things. Speculations about what drives him, either personally or via external factors, is moot.

(p.s.: a couple of the Kickstarter backers I know initially turned their nose up at this, since out of all the decisions you can make, the biggest ones that could potentially change the story are made for you. But they, in the end, liked the ending of the game, and accept that LISA is a very story-driven game, and that no matter what decisions you make for him, Brad is Brad to the end.)
Ichidoge Mar 1, 2015 @ 5:31pm 
At this point, I think it's clear we won't reach an agreement, to be honest. Some people want to believe Brad is flawed and needed help (especially when he was just a child). Others think he was just a deranged drug addict that killed for the sake of killing (he actually killed for this reason more than a couple of times, the constructio site comes to mind). Dingaling managed to create a game that succesfully struck some nerves and made you ponder what's the right thing to do in this setting. This thread is proof of that. To me, Brad was a man who needed help but preferred to cope with his pain by abusing drugs instead of trusting the people around him, and this made him do a lot of horrible and selfish things.
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Date Posted: Feb 28, 2015 @ 11:51am
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