It's the game on 2D or in isometric view that makes the sensation of 2D?

[Heantrad]

Just curious, I know the limitations of RPG Maker, and I want to know how the hell did the creator managed to do that.

[JCKLNTRN]

It's 2D, not isometric.

As for how he managed to do it: custom scripts.

[Heantrad]

Oprindeligt skrevet af bellsybabble:

It's 2D, not isometric.

As for how he managed to do it: custom scripts.

Thanks.

[MegaLobsterFace]

Oprindeligt skrevet af bellsybabble:

It's 2D, not isometric.

As for how he managed to do it: custom scripts.

Are you sure? There's an area in area 3 that lets you go vertically up the walls like it was still an isometric RPG Maker game. It seemed to me that everything that gives it the impression of 2D are very skillfully instructed scripts that make you jump and climb ropes slowly. It probably wouldn't be impossible to rip the engine apart and make it 2D instead, but I always thought it was just clever design.

[Ajogamer]

Lisa's definitely not isometric, and really doesn't have an isometric viewpoint either (just look at these examples[www.google.com] of isometric games from Google images for a better idea). The only thing it does that's at all 3D-like is clever layering of sprites (which in RPG Maker, can be done both via event images and tiles) to give a better sense of depth in some areas, like in caves. It's still 100% 2D though (since there are no 3D models of any sort), and really isn't isometric in any way.

Oprindeligt skrevet af MegaLobsterFace:

Are you sure? There's an area in area 3 that lets you go vertically up the walls like it was still an isometric RPG Maker game. It seemed to me that everything that gives it the impression of 2D are very skillfully instructed scripts that make you jump and climb ropes slowly. It probably wouldn't be impossible to rip the engine apart and make it 2D instead, but I always thought it was just clever design.

Which area are you talking about? Cause I'm trying to think of the different areas, but can't remember any that had you vertically going up any walls (unless you mean through jumping or rope climbing, though those're everywhere, and don't sound like what you meant).

[Heantrad]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ajogamer:

Lisa's definitely not isometric, and really doesn't have an isometric viewpoint either (just look at these examples[www.google.com] of isometric games from Google images for a better idea). The only thing it does that's at all 3D-like is clever layering of sprites (which in RPG Maker, can be done both via event images and tiles) to give a better sense of depth in some areas, like in caves. It's still 100% 2D though (since there are no 3D models of any sort), and really isn't isometric in any way.

Oprindeligt skrevet af MegaLobsterFace:

Are you sure? There's an area in area 3 that lets you go vertically up the walls like it was still an isometric RPG Maker game. It seemed to me that everything that gives it the impression of 2D are very skillfully instructed scripts that make you jump and climb ropes slowly. It probably wouldn't be impossible to rip the engine apart and make it 2D instead, but I always thought it was just clever design.

Which area are you talking about? Cause I'm trying to think of the different areas, but can't remember any that had you vertically going up any walls (unless you mean through jumping or rope climbing, though those're everywhere, and don't sound like what you meant).

When I meanted isometric I was refering to this point of view[www.google.es]

[MegaLobsterFace]

The engine is in an isometric point of view, something you can't change without heavy programming. The dev made the sprites and the scripts in a way that it looks 2D to us, but if you went into the code, I'm guessing it would resemble an isometric RPG just like all the other games on the engine. The game itself is obviously 2D when you look at it in a vacuum, but the engine is isometric.

In area 3, there's houses in the area with Crisp Ladaddy and Columbo. You can go vertically upthe walls here, and see what movement was like before all the clever scripts made it resemble a 2D game.

[Ajogamer]

Oprindeligt skrevet af ༼つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Give LIL' HAUNT:

When I meanted isometric I was refering to this point of view[www.google.es]

Yeah, that wouldn't be isometric due to the lack of angle with the viewpoint (or getting a bit more technical, the angles between the 3 axes need to be equal for it to be isometric). I'm not sure if there's a specific term for that style you're referring to, but I'd probaby say "Top-down 2D" or something similar.

I think re-reading your question, I may see what you were getting at a bit better (isometric threw me off, since that camera angle's all about creating the illusion of 3D with 2D; the opposite of what I think you're talking about). Were you thinking of that top-down viewpoint (like with many RPG Maker games) as being 3D? Cause even though that has a bit of a 3D look, it's still 2D. That distinction may not be too important when just glancing at the game, but it's very important when it comes to how it's made. Basically, both those top-down RPG Maker games and Lisa are tile-based, though Lisa's tiles are simply drawn in a way that makes things look flatter, and has a different camera angle in mind (side view, rather than top down), which is what gives it more of a 2D look (so even though they're both 2D technically, Lisa may look more 2D since it bit flatter and is viewed from the side.

Far as certain things popping out more or going over one-another, RPG maker lets you set the priority of graphics (basically, if two graphics are on the same space, you can pick which graphic will display on top), and there are multiple ways you can display graphics: 1. through tiles 2. through character sprites 3. through events. Using a combination of tile graphics and event graphics is what gives it that sense of 3 demensions in some areas. To give a more specific example, with a cave, it'd be like, the stalagmites have highest priority (so they display over everything) character sprites and the tiles for the ground you walk on have 2nd priority (so they display under stalagmites, but over everything else) and the tiles for the background have the least priority (so everything else displays over them).

I know that was kinda long (and may be a bit more than you were asking), though hopefully it makes sense and answers your question.

[Ajogamer]

Oprindeligt skrevet af MegaLobsterFace:

The engine is in an isometric point of view, something you can't change without heavy programming. The dev made the sprites and the scripts in a way that it looks 2D to us, but if you went into the code, I'm guessing it would resemble an isometric RPG just like all the other games on the engine. The game itself is obviously 2D when you look at it in a vacuum, but the engine is isometric.

In area 3, there's houses in the area with Crisp Ladaddy and Columbo. You can go vertically upthe walls here, and see what movement was like before all the clever scripts made it resemble a 2D game.

Ah, I see. Yeah, walking up the walls of those houses is a glitch (I think you know, just wanna be sure). You're right that gives an idea about how the character movement in RPG Maker is set up by default though (and how the coding is set up in a way that expects you to make a game in that default, top-down style).

[Heantrad]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ajogamer:

Oprindeligt skrevet af ༼つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Give LIL' HAUNT:

When I meanted isometric I was refering to this point of view[www.google.es]

Yeah, that wouldn't be isometric due to the lack of angle with the viewpoint (or getting a bit more technical, the angles between the 3 axes need to be equal for it to be isometric). I'm not sure if there's a specific term for that style you're referring to, but I'd probaby say "Top-down 2D" or something similar.

I think re-reading your question, I may see what you were getting at a bit better (isometric threw me off, since that camera angle's all about creating the illusion of 3D with 2D; the opposite of what I think you're talking about). Were you thinking of that top-down viewpoint (like with many RPG Maker games) as being 3D? Cause even though that has a bit of a 3D look, it's still 2D. That distinction may not be too important when just glancing at the game, but it's very important when it comes to how it's made. Basically, both those top-down RPG Maker games and Lisa are tile-based, though Lisa's tiles are simply drawn in a way that makes things look flatter, and has a different camera angle in mind (side view, rather than top down), which is what gives it more of a 2D look (so even though they're both 2D technically, Lisa may look more 2D since it bit flatter and is viewed from the side.

Far as certain things popping out more or going over one-another, RPG maker lets you set the priority of graphics (basically, if two graphics are on the same space, you can pick which graphic will display on top), and there are multiple ways you can display graphics: 1. through tiles 2. through character sprites 3. through events. Using a combination of tile graphics and event graphics is what gives it that sense of 3 demensions in some areas. To give a more specific example, with a cave, it'd be like, the stalagmites have highest priority (so they display over everything) character sprites and the tiles for the ground you walk on have 2nd priority (so they display under stalagmites, but over everything else) and the tiles for the background have the least priority (so everything else displays over them).

I know that was kinda long (and may be a bit more than you were asking), though hopefully it makes sense and answers your question.

What I meant was if it was 2D (like a side scroller, Super Meat Boy for example, you can't move in a third dimension) or 3D (like and old Final Fantasy, where you coulded move in every direction) but it was done in a way that only letted you move left or right, and up or down if you can climb)

[Ajogamer]

Oprindeligt skrevet af ༼つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Give LIL' HAUNT:

What I meant was if it was 2D (like a side scroller, Super Meat Boy for example, you can't move in a third dimension) or 3D (like and old Final Fantasy, where you coulded move in every direction) but it was done in a way that only letted you move left or right, and up or down if you can climb)

Ah, far as that aspect goes, Dingaling didn't do anything with the actual coding to prevent moving up and down. The way it works is that you can set the passability of graphics and objects (basically, whether you can walk into them or not), which is what limits you to walking only left and right most places (since the foreground and background were made solid and non-passable). Far as things like climbing a rope goes, it's basically the same thing, just the other way around (with the tiles to your left and right not being solid and non-passable), then with something like jumping and falling it's basically an event that tells the game to "move the main character so-and-so tiles in so-and-so direction" along with " temporarily change the character's sprite to so-and-so graphic". The reason that works is cause even if the tiles you pass through while jumping/falling are non-passable normally, events are capable of ignoring those restrictions.

To try and put it simpler, Lisa uses the same 4-way movement as other RPG Maker games (that part's hard-coded into the engine) but clever use of events and what graphics are and aren't solid makes it seem more like a sidescroller than the engine usually allows.

[Heantrad]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ajogamer:

Oprindeligt skrevet af ༼つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Give LIL' HAUNT:

What I meant was if it was 2D (like a side scroller, Super Meat Boy for example, you can't move in a third dimension) or 3D (like and old Final Fantasy, where you coulded move in every direction) but it was done in a way that only letted you move left or right, and up or down if you can climb)

Ah, far as that aspect goes, Dingaling didn't do anything with the actual coding to prevent moving up and down. The way it works is that you can set the passability of graphics and objects (basically, whether you can walk into them or not), which is what limits you to walking only left and right most places (since the foreground and background were made solid and non-passable). Far as things like climbing a rope goes, it's basically the same thing, just the other way around (with the tiles to your left and right not being solid and non-passable), then with something like jumping and falling it's basically an event that tells the game to "move the main character so-and-so tiles in so-and-so direction" along with " temporarily change the character's sprite to so-and-so graphic". The reason that works is cause even if the tiles you pass through while jumping/falling are non-passable normally, events are capable of ignoring those restrictions.

To try and put it simpler, Lisa uses the same 4-way movement as other RPG Maker games (that part's hard-coded into the engine) but clever use of events and what graphics are and aren't solid makes it seem more like a sidescroller than the engine usually allows.

Thanks, that's what I wanted to know.
Actually, that would explain this https://twitter.com/HeantradXD/status/610791820537274368

[acerezz56]

no scripts. just alot of tile work. stitching them together like a boss.