About Joyful's ending

[Exophase]

The one where you select "Join Them" and Buddy becomes a Joy mutant. Why is it that mutant Buddy is shown holding her child only if you drop Rando?

Seen some people confused by this but not much in the way of theories so here's my stab at it:

When you drop Rando Buddy never learns that the kidnappers were his men and that he prepared that room with the teddy bear. This filled Buddy with so much anger and feelings of betrayal that she killed him. As a Joy mutant running on pure emotion she had a blacker heart than she would have otherwise... and killed her baby after it was born.

Pretty dark, I know. Anyone else have any other possible explanations?

[HungryPolarBear]

As to your theory, why do you think Buddy would still be filled with anger and feelings of betrayal if she never heard from him that she was set up? I had a few different save files to experience potential endings and I'm pretty sure that whether you dropped him pre or post explanation the ending cut-scene would still have her with a baby on screen. The baby was also there whether you chose to "Join them" or leave them behind.

Now who do you think the baby belonged to? I can only assume that it was Sticky's because he made a few comments to Brad in the base game that implied some sexual activity with Buddy.

[Exophase]

Originally posted by Hungry PolarBear:

As to your theory, why do you think Buddy would still be filled with anger and feelings of betrayal if she never heard from him that she was set up? I had a few different save files to experience potential endings and I'm pretty sure that whether you dropped him pre or post explanation the ending cut-scene would still have her with a baby on screen. The baby was also there whether you chose to "Join them" or leave them behind.

In the "Leave Them" ending where Buddy doesn't mutate she always has the child. But in the "Join Them" ending she only has the child if she dropped Rando. I've played through it both ways so I've confirmed this, but it's been mentioned by others here before as well.

As for your question, I think you got what I was saying backwards. It's when she heard that she was set up that she isn't shown with the child.

Originally posted by Hungry PolarBear:

Now who do you think the baby belonged to? I can only assume that it was Sticky's because he made a few comments to Brad in the base game that implied some sexual activity with Buddy.

I think the father was Dale. Although his friends say what he did wasn't that serious they killed him for it and I don't think they would have done that if it weren't serious.

I don't think Buddy would have said Sticky didn't touch her if he had. I don't remember the exact comments he made to Brad but I think they were more along the lines of telling her things about sex. The other things that "he" said after Brad was force fed Joy were probably just a hallucination.

[HungryPolarBear]

Exophase, in addition to seeing your response I also just saw a video where Buddy -did not- have a child in the ending when choosing to "join them." I surely got my save files mixed up, apologies.

To your mention of Dale as the father, I think you may be onto something. The child shown in the ending sequence doesn't seem to resemble any other characters in the game [unless you consider black hair to be a resemblance] but it does make sense for his companions to kill him as recompense for raping Buddy. Otherwise killing him just seems harsh, especially for somebody that they were "friends" with. Surely their mention of it "not being serious" was to downplay the severity to Rando.

Still, I am torn as to why Sticky would say more than once [Joy hallucination included] that he ensured the survival of the human race. Sure he was trying to piss Brad off but that seems like a strange claim to make when facing down your death. When Brad finally catches up to Buddy in the base game she mentions that Sticky showed her ____ and when Brad questions her about this she closes up and claims that it was nothing. I didn't think that she had any obligation to be wholly honest with Rando at the point that they discussed Sticky but I would have expected that his child would have that cowlick. Yet, the black hair persists...

[EverDownward]

I thought a child would appear based on whether or not you dropped Rando because of the other guy involved in the scene:

A: Drop Rando, what's his face doesn't "do things" to Buddy, no kid at the end.
B: Don't drop Rando, what's his face gets the opportunity to "do things" to Buddy, kid at the end.

[Exophase]

Originally posted by EverDownward:

I thought a child would appear based on whether or not you dropped Rando because of the other guy involved in the scene:

A: Drop Rando, what's his face doesn't "do things" to Buddy, no kid at the end.
B: Don't drop Rando, what's his face gets the opportunity to "do things" to Buddy, kid at the end.

If that were the case, there should be no child in the "Leave Them" ending if you dropped Rando. Besides, Buddy says that Sweetheart saved her again, which sounds like Bolo didn't get the chance to really do anything.

[CocoBear]

Late to the party, but my theory is that Bolo impregnates Buddy if given the chance. So in the Join Them ending she'll have a baby or not, depending on Bolo having the chance to rape her during that barbed wire hanging scene.

However, in the Leave Them ending, Buddy remains a human and will have a baby at some point, whether sired by Bolo or some other man who Buddy meets later. As long as she remains human, she can copulate and conceive a baby. But in the Join Them ending, once she becomes a mutant, she no longer has any future opportunities for procreation.

[Freaky Mutant Man]

Originally posted by CocoBear:

Late to the party, but my theory is that Bolo impregnates Buddy if given the chance. So in the Join Them ending she'll have a baby or not, depending on Bolo having the chance to rape her during that barbed wire hanging scene.

However, in the Leave Them ending, Buddy remains a human and will have a baby at some point, whether sired by Bolo or some other man who Buddy meets later. As long as she remains human, she can copulate and conceive a baby. But in the Join Them ending, once she becomes a mutant, she no longer has any future opportunities for procreation.

Except that the baby only appears in Join Them if you drop Rando and kill Bolo. Your theory would make sense if it was the other way around, but for whatever reason it's the opposite of what you'd think it'd be.. I do have to wonder if there was some kind of error here, since it's just kinda confusing the way it is now, but maybe there's something we're missing here?

[CocoBear]

Originally posted by Freaky Mutant Man:

Originally posted by CocoBear:

Late to the party, but my theory is that Bolo impregnates Buddy if given the chance. So in the Join Them ending she'll have a baby or not, depending on Bolo having the chance to rape her during that barbed wire hanging scene.

However, in the Leave Them ending, Buddy remains a human and will have a baby at some point, whether sired by Bolo or some other man who Buddy meets later. As long as she remains human, she can copulate and conceive a baby. But in the Join Them ending, once she becomes a mutant, she no longer has any future opportunities for procreation.

Except that the baby only appears in Join Them if you drop Rando and kill Bolo. Your theory would make sense if it was the other way around, but for whatever reason it's the opposite of what you'd think it'd be.. I do have to wonder if there was some kind of error here, since it's just kinda confusing the way it is now, but maybe there's something we're missing here?

Argh, I got it completely backwards. Thank you for the correction.

In that case I support Exophase's theory, where the baby symbolizes Buddy's blissful ignorance. If she saves Rando and learns the truth, she either outright kills the baby, or her body rejects the baby before birth. Or she vows never to have mutant-on-mutant sex, if the would-be baby's conception actually happens after the game's events.