How long before first ship upgrade

[kory]

Playing on hard mode, I find I get about 10 years in and spend much of that time doing upgrades to my first ship, and I don't really have the money to buy a new ship and upgrade it to a point where it is worth doing. I am pretty confident that the game isn't meant for you to finish in your first ship, especially if you put D or E into that ship, but I'm not sure about when that upgrade should be.

I know the answer to this is "it depends", but typically how far in do you do your first ship upgrade?

[-Moonlight丶301]

I never upgraded the first ship, farming money to buy the second ship and upgrading it before the Duel of Assassins happened

[Tuidjy]

Why do you upgrade your first ship? I upgrade the weapon locker, and that's it. Apart from that, I only ditch combat components and replace them with passenger cabins and prisoner cells, so that I can run a good dozen missions concurrently.

The first ship, especially a D or E first ship, will never be safe to take into every ship combat. Sure, you can win against many enemies, but with low level talents, you will end up upsetting someone, and that will make more dangerous combat encounters more likely.

Furthermore, meaningful upgrades take time, i.e. you are letting the clock tick while you are polishing a turd.

Forget upgrading your first ship. unless it is a star performer like the Megalift. Instead, run profitable missions and buy a solid ship, then upgrade it in dock, so that you waste no time. Depending on your difficulty, it takes a few years before Xenos show up. Everyone else, you can either convince to let you be, or allow on your ship, losing very little in the process.

In my last Hard game, I had a badаss 3400 ton second ship, fully upgraded, a few days before the end of year 3. I did not upgrade to another ship, an 8000 tonner, until I was swimming in enough cash to stop running missions except story ones.

In my current Impossible game, I did not purchase my second ship until the middle of year six, but I went straight to a 8000. I actually leveled a navigator officer in scavenger and pirate crew combat, so that I could flee for Xenos... and never met one to run away from.

I actually still have not fired that officer, although, to be honest, there is no need for a Navigator/Pilot officer, no matter how awesome his stats and skill happen to be.

Anyhoooo. Rush that second ship purchase, and upgrade it in dock.

[kory]

OK, that makes sense, I never considered the value of doing the upgrades on the ship in dock, its easy to forget about the time due to the fact that it feels instantaneous.

Thanks for the advice.

[Shad1902]

it also depends on your starting ship. I like to start with a Longbolt (unlockable 200.000$ ship (D priority)) because it's fast... perfect for the first 2-3y and all the early story missions.
I rarely do any upgrades to it (just ditch the spy components for prisons or passenger cabins) and get my second ship after about 3y. Often a 5000 or 3400 toner ship (I like fast ships...).

BTW: The Longbolt is OK in combat during the early years (in Hard difficulty). Either use it for boarding rushes or stay at 5 and launch torps.
But I like to switch to the wolf vector ASAP.

[davea]

Both of you have said you get your second ship after 3 years. For me it is more like 10 years. I usually jump up to the 8000 ton class and I need at least 2.5M credits for that. How much do you spend on your second ship after 3 years?

[Shad1902]

Originally posted by davea:

Both of you have said you get your second ship after 3 years. For me it is more like 10 years. I usually jump up to the 8000 ton class and I need at least 2.5M credits for that. How much do you spend on your second ship after 3 years?

first: I always buy a small ship (3400 / 5000), simply because waiting for to long to get the seconds ship is a waste of potential...BUT I always start with a ship at D or E priority, so getting a new ship is a priority (as said, I often start with the Longbolt).

Second: there are some ships which are nearly "ready to use", like the Wolf Vector for 625.000, but you can get it up to -30% less with a contact that reduces cost by 10% + engineer talent, and getting 500.000 creds is doable in less than 3 years. You then use your second ship to get enough funds for your final ship(s).

lastly: ship speed is the most important thing for everything travel based (missions, trading etc..). Even my trader/smuggler/diplomat starts with a longbolt because of its 23 speed. This makes it possible to "save" time and get more money in less time (if this makes sense to you). IMHO, the first 2 years are crucial and you'll probably only do deliver package jobs...so travel speed is king at that time.

I avoid ships over 5000 tons until at least year 10+ (even with my military guys I prefer a speedy 5000 toner over a slow 7000er ship), because they're too slow (9 speed for a 9000 toner for 24 speed for a 3400 toner...do the math ;) ) and I'd like to have at least 20 speed in the early years. Also, some 3400 toner ships have a "scout bridge", which can handle the captain + 2officiers (giving more space for other stuff)...so a scout bridge is basically a +2 small components or +2 medium components modifier, while the scout bridge is only a small component instead of a medium one... making those 3400 toner nearly a 5000 toner vessel for equipment space, while giving the possibility to have a 3400 toner engine (which is faster than those of bigger ships).

Have a look at this list and study it. Some ships are really amazing and worth getting over others, because they're better equipped (wolf vector / arcanum Freighter / strike-carrier...)

https://startraders.gamepedia.com/Ships

Originally posted by Tuidjy:

In my last Hard game, I had a badаss 3400 ton second ship, fully upgraded, a few days before the end of year 3.

can you share your ship build ? thx !!

[davea]

I usually start with ship C and I put a few upgrades into it along the way, but I save money till I can afford an endgame ship.

[Tuidjy]

Originally posted by Shad1902:

Also, some 3400 toner ships have a "scout bridge", which can handle the captain + 2officiers (giving more space for other stuff)...so a scout bridge is basically a +2 small components or +2 medium components modifier, while the scout bridge is only a small component instead of a medium one...

In my opinion, the 3400 toners that do not have scout bridge are not worth buying, period.

Originally posted by Shad1902:

Originally posted by Tuidjy:

In my last Hard game, I had a badаss 3400 ton second ship, fully upgraded, a few days before the end of year 3.

can you share your ship build ? thx !!

I am not sure that I still have the ship, and it was nothing special:

No weapon locker, one passenger cabin, one medium cell block, one medical cabin that can house an officer, one gun for applying a 'no escape' debuff in the early turns, and the rest is pretty much defense matrices. It was a boarding ship.

[-Moonlight丶301]

starter C ship -> M5000 ship till end game or m7000 leon battle cruiser if i want

[GrimSentinel]

If you're looking for a 3400 mass ship, I'd suggest using the Sword Cutter over the Wolf Vector. It's only about 75% of the cost, and not really any harder to retrofit. The only catch being that you need Military Rank with the Cadar to get them to sell it to you.

Also, the Wolf Vector is capped at 85% craft evade, while the Sword Cutter can reach a whopping 98%.

Here's the build I've been using:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2117450784

[Shad1902]

Originally posted by GrimSentinel:

If you're looking for a 3400 mass ship, I'd suggest using the Sword Cutter over the Wolf Vector. It's only about 75% of the cost, and not really any harder to retrofit. The only catch being that you need Military Rank with the Cadar to get them to sell it to you.

Also, the Wolf Vector is capped at 85% craft evade, while the Sword Cutter can reach a whopping 98%.

Here's the build I've been using:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2117450784

indeed, but if you don't start as Cadar, chances you get a Cadar contact which sells military ranks are a bit gamble in the first 3y. Also, you always get a contact of your own faction which gives -10% on new ships, so the cost factor isn't as big at it seems.

So yes, but as the goal ist to get a new ship quickly, I prefer the vector over having to gamble...You can still get a Cutter later though.

BTW: the Vector and the Cutter are the best 3400 toner IMHO

[Tuidjy]

Originally posted by Shad1902:

BTW: the Vector and the Cutter are the best 3400 toner IMHO

That used to be the case for a long time, but now the Cutter is strictly better, due to the high small craft evasion. It is a ship you can take very far into the late game, if you like to live in the fast lane. And like to live dangerously.

[Shad1902]

Originally posted by Tuidjy:

Originally posted by Shad1902:

BTW: the Vector and the Cutter are the best 3400 toner IMHO

That used to be the case for a long time, but now the Cutter is strictly better, due to the high small craft evasion. It is a ship you can take very far into the late game, if you like to live in the fast lane. And like to live dangerously.

small craft evasion isn't a thing until year 10+ at least (on hard)....
Otherwise, yes, the cutter is "better", but as non starting cadar not so easy to get in less than 3y (reliant on luck). So for me the Vector is the "better" craft as first buy. I can always get the cutter later.

[Tuidjy]

Well, the only reason to worry about craft evasion is if you intend to tackle Jyeeta in a 3400 tonner, which is not impossible, but which severely restricts your ability to excel in areas other than killing Xenos.

I play Steel Song and Cadar, almost exclusively, so I always have rank with both pretty early. It is a very unlucky start that doesn't generate a few contacts, considering how much time I spend in those two sectors in the first years. And yes, I do my best to keep my relations with both pretty high. I always seem to get a Chaesin Researcher in Fifth Pass, every time I'm Steel Song.

[Shad1902]

Originally posted by Tuidjy:

Well, the only reason to worry about craft evasion is if you intend to tackle Jyeeta in a 3400 tonner, which is not impossible, but which severely restricts your ability to excel in areas other than killing Xenos.

I play Steel Song and Cadar, almost exclusively, so I always have rank with both pretty early. It is a very unlucky start that doesn't generate a few contacts, considering how much time I spend in those two sectors in the first years. And yes, I do my best to keep my relations with both pretty high. I always seem to get a Chaesin Researcher in Fifth Pass, every time I'm Steel Song.

I'm Rychart right now (spy), and sadly I only got my first contact that sells Cadar military rank in year 6 (while I'm already flying an upgraded Cutter).

My oldest captain reached year 20+ but only tackled Terrox. I tend to restart after a major update (like the carrier / small craft update), and had not enough time lately to catch up.
What would be the best tonnage to tackle the Jyeeta ? IMHO 5000 and 6000 seems to be the best option of speed vs size (looking at the Crimson defender as Rychard, though it seems a bit big for a spy)