Xeno hunter is terrible against xeno

[Goyangyii]

Evasion grant only standard dodge against melee attacks, and without any blade skill for parry xenos has 100% chance to hit the hunter.

All accuracy - debuffs basically has no effect. 6 standard dice against 40 strong dice -25% is still 100% chance to hit.

Xenos also can hit 3 rank and love to shuffle team so even 3 and 4 position is not safe.

All exo and hunter skill focused on killing everything in the alpha strike with plasma burner, or debuff them with - armor and killing them. This actually make them extremely effective against humans because you want to kill soldiers and snipers before they attack, to the point that 2 xeno hunter can easily win against 4 human with 2 plasma burners, but terrible against xeno because they have too high health to kill them in the first turn.

My xeno hunters can steamroll most xeno combat with but it's sometimes risky, I've had crews almost died because some push attack + unlucky crits, and these are terrox on hard, I haven't fought against jyeeta yet but I can't imagine this team would work against them.


Swordsman has opposite of problem; they are terrible against human because they don't have burst damage nor able to attack 3 and 4 rank, instead most of talent increase +parry% buff after or attack or heal, make them extremely powerful against xeno but terrible against human because parry does nothing against gun.

Against xeno you want 3 swordman + blade dancer or commando, both dancer and commando can attack in the 3 position so rifle is unnecessary. Fourth position can be whatever you want but probably supporter with debuff cleansing and buffs.

[lanfear]

I use xeno hunter (soldier / bounty hunter officer) in impossible and it's fine, he's not there to shoot plasma burner against xeno / jyeeta (I love plasma burner against humans).

he starts in position 4, I use him to:
buff the team: Irid Laced resolve, Backline Leader, Frontline Brave (when he gets shuffled to the front)
debuff xeno: Puncture Points, Unfaltering Ire, Roaring Barrels (when he gets shuffled to the front)

soldier has lots of talents to attack and move back/forth which are handy to re-position against xenos

against humans I only use plasma burner, and suddenly it's 4 against 2

[JimmysTheBestCop]

Evasion is a trap on higher difficulties. Its great it's there. But the safe play is to build for mitagation. High fortitude, high armor, armor fort init buffed gear and finally armor buffs during combat.

Then you can sit there eating attacks like it's nothing. My last impossible run I hit the jyeeta max lvl 40 while my combat team was 17/18. But you mitigate the same damage at those levels as you do level 40. Mitagation doesn't depend on leveling like evasion does. Or even parrying but blades users do have a lot of parry buffs at least.

I've never used plasma burner once lol
Xeno Hunter/bounty Hunter/soldier in spot 3 with a snubber is vicious.

Lots of different builds and strategies. No right way. Maybe a couple wrongs ways once you crank it up to impossible.

I'm never worried about factions and talents that don't also debuff enemy or buff player against xeno I tend to not use.

I rather drop a steadfast aim and then 2nd shot drop a debuff attacking.

But there are lots of ways to slice it. I've never had a problem against factions with blade users. Blade users excel in many attacks cause low init attacks.

[ptirodaktill]

Bounty hunter lvl 5, Xeno hunter lvl 8 and the rest in soldier is the best snubber/AR build in the game. Just buff your armor with soldier/commander/CM at turn 1 and these filty xenos won't even touch you.
At first 15 levels its better to use sniper rifles with Steadfast Aim and Puncture Points . Once you switch to contact weapons you can equio riffle/snubber and spec intro plazma burner.

[Tuidjy]

Originally posted by (◕‿◕✿):

Evasion grant only standard dodge against melee attacks, and without any blade skill for parry xenos has 100% chance to hit the hunter.

... and this is why everyone in my team wears very heavy armor, and if possible, uses devices that grant extra fortitude, armor, etc. Yes, this includes blade users with Blades in the high 30s who use vignette swords, parry buffs, etc.

Evasion is nice when it works, but you absolutely cannot rely on it.

Xenos also can hit 3 rank and love to shuffle team so even 3 and 4 position is not safe.

Space is not safe. But high end equipment in good repair makes it less unsafe.

In the perfect world, every marine of yours should not only be able to efficiently change his position, and by 'efficiently' I mean 'while attacking or buffing', but also be able to either heal, protect, or at least reposition a comrade.

All exo and hunter skill focused on killing everything in the alpha strike with plasma burner, or debuff them with - armor and killing them.

There is a time for plasma burner, and it is at the end of the first round, if it will finish off one or two enemies. At any other time, a rifle user has something better to do.

My xeno hunters can steamroll most xeno combat with but it's sometimes risky, I've had crews almost died because some push attack + unlucky crits, and these are terrox on hard, I haven't fought against jyeeta yet but I can't imagine this team would work against them.

You may have to refine your tactics. Against level 40 Jyeeta soldiers, you cannot rely on turn 1 victories. Against junior crew and even against soldiers, it may happen, but it is not a sure thing. You need to emphasize survival over speed. Heavy armor, talents that patch up trouble spots, and damage or initiative debuffs. Stuns are also situationally useful.

Swordsman has opposite of problem; they are terrible against human because they don't have burst damage nor able to attack 3 and 4 rank

Swordsmen are brutally effective against humans, but then who is not? They simply make the front positions of the enemy melt, especially with vignette blades.

instead most of talent increase +parry% buff after or attack or heal, make them extremely powerful against xeno but terrible against human because parry does nothing against gun.

There are buffs to use against xenos, and buffs to use against humans.

Against Xenos, you buff armor, parry, and resist debuffs. Against humans, whatever. They die like flies anyway, so you may want to just kill them before they can act.

Against xeno you want 3 swordman + blade dancer or commando, both dancer and commando can attack in the 3 position so rifle is unnecessary.

Blade users from position 3 are inefficient. I much rather have a soldier/exo/xeno with the vignette snubber. Not for the plasma burner, but for the buffs, grenades, and huge single-target snubber damage. He will not be dodging or parrying, but he may be laughing at the enemy attacks, taking single digit damage, due to high armor and fortitude.

Fourth position can be whatever you want but probably supporter with debuff cleansing and buffs.

Personally, I go for a medic/spy/officer with Pistols and Doctor in the mid 20s-30s. Heals, repositioning, debuff cleansing, and very respectable damage.

Like this one.[imgur.com]

[lanfear]

Against xenos my xeno hunter starts in position 4 for Backline Leader, buffs the whole team

In position 3 I have a combat medic / spy, he opens up with Distracting Shots and swaps position with the xeno hunter, he can use the vignette snubber from there

I have swordsman/zealot/wing commando in 2, swordsman/zealot/blade dancer in 1

flash fury and feint are really good to debuff xenos

against human I put the hunter in position 3 so he can use plasma burner immediately.

[THaNaToS_J2]

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1003683974974649275/22F3ACD1E5FE75F5B4B99E5D00C54F4570547190/

With that high initiative (starting as a xeno hunter helps) I get the self dmg buff and then buff my team with backline leader. My 2nd move (sometimes before anyone else gets their first) is either debuff or plasma burn. Play it by ear. It is not uncommon to take out 1-2 xeno before anyone else even gets a chance to go. Depending on my roll, I may even get a 2nd plasma burn in.
Evade is meaningless when no one is left alive to hit you!
The rep bonus for killing a xeno ship is just gravy in the mid to late game. With an explorer and exo-scouts in my crew as well, the xp/artifacts from combat make mid game until the end a lot easier. And with smuggler/diplo/merchant (and the exo skill) you can make a small fortune selling a full cargo bay of xeno/jeeta artifacts.

[Tuidjy]

Originally posted by THaNaToS_J2:

And with smuggler/diplo/merchant (and the exo skill) you can make a small fortune selling a full cargo bay of xeno/jeeta artifacts.

Small fortune?

I've done $10,000,000+ in one trade.[i.imgur.com]

This will pay for the best, fully upgraded ship in the game.

[THaNaToS_J2]

Originally posted by Tuidjy:

Originally posted by THaNaToS_J2:

And with smuggler/diplo/merchant (and the exo skill) you can make a small fortune selling a full cargo bay of xeno/jeeta artifacts.

Small fortune?

I've done $10,000,000+ in one trade.[i.imgur.com]

This will pay for the best, fully upgraded ship in the game.

LOL. That's a hell of a cargo bay and an insane trade! Nicely done.
My best trade was a little under $1.8m. But I had 1/3 of that space! Less cargo room, more pew pew.

[-Moonlight丶301]

trade jeeyta artifact in lux pop worth 10 mil with only 250 cargo

[lanfear]

What about missions? I can do 1M+ in impossible for Faen, anyone has done 2M?

[JimmysTheBestCop]

Originally posted by lanfear:

What about missions? I can do 1M+ in impossible for Faen, anyone has done 2M?

I bore of missions long before 1 million. I like to go out and do my own thing. But its probably possible if you are max rank and have a good talent that boosts mission payouts

[imcalfin]

TL;DR: Buffing, buff stripping and initiative reduction are superior to concentrating on a huge 1st round alpha strike against the Xeno. Slower but less risky. Keep'em off balance and take your time.

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Buff stripping and initiative draining attacks are brutally effective against Xeno (both the regular and Jyeeta). The creepy critters really seem to love buffing themselves which makes quite a few fights go something like this:

1) Buff yourself (anything with armor/parry/initiative/debuff resist) - Xenos do the same.
2) Strip buffs from a xeno. (This assumes that you have, on the average, the advantage on initiative and buff stripping attacks/talents - and you should have both.)
3) Initiative draining attack.
4) Xeno reapplies buffs only to have them stripped again.
5) Some more ini reduction.
5) Repeat steps 2-5 until you:
6) Win.

Human enemies just die too fast for buffing yourself to the gills to make much sense. 9/10 it's better to translate the initiative into damage and ini reduction instead of buffs.

The AI just isn't very smart about buffing/debuffing/initiative in general, imo.

Quite often it's possible to stay ahead on the initiative for almost the whole round so that the xeno don't even really get a turn even if they remain alive for a bit longer compared to a more damage focused approach. And the ini debuffs (+your ini buffs) mean that they're in a bad position when the next round starts. Avoiding situations where several xenos get to take their turns in succession is also good - less chance of them to gang up on someone or shuffle your lineup beyond easy repair. The initiative reducing attacks/talents help there as well.

Letting the creepy crawlies buff up and carry said buffs into the next round is a very bad idea. A lot of their buffs have a substantial initiative bonus in addition to other stuff (armor, deflection, damage etc.) and especially at early-mid levels you can end up with a nigh unhittable Xeno god(s) with obscene initiative that really does some damage if you let them build up.

My favourite xeno-murder squad right now is:

pos1: Swordsman/?/?
pos2: Swordsman/?/?
pos3: Xeno Hunter 8/Soldier 5/ Exo (the rest)
pos4: BH5/Spy5/Combat Medic (the rest)

Subbing the Xeno/Exo for a Pistoleer/MO/*something* would probably be fine as well - less damage and no Irid-Laced (boo!) but better buffing outside that (Tactical Edge, Leader in the Ranks and Steely Authority are nice) and debuffing (Damning Aim and Tricky Gunplay to begin with). Preferably with the ability to wield an off-hand blade. Damage with one of the hand cannons is certainly good enough - increased debuff/ini reduction potential with a faster weapon otoh is also impressive.

Rule of thumb: everyone has talents to return to their designated position in the line-up (this is a weakness in the Xeno Hunter/Exo/BH combo, no reverse gear) and preferably some members have talents to move others as well (Tactical Edge/Shove, others?). Having someone that can remove debuffs from the medic is a good idea as well (having your medic stunned at an inopportune moment can really mess things up).

[Mister Waffles]

Originally posted by (◕‿◕✿):

Evasion grant only standard dodge against melee attacks, and without any blade skill for parry xenos has 100% chance to hit the hunter.

OP might also be interested in this thread from a few weeks ago:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/335620/discussions/0/1638676181987623250/