Changing ship

[Daimon]

So after some time I am eager to start a new game with some memories of my last session still being in the back of my head.
The most pressing issue was with my last captain, that I started with an Fidelis Cutter as my ship and after a lot of succesfull battles and even a 90% success chance in taking down xeno scum ships, I upgraded my ship to the most big bad ass available, only to find out that while being stronger in battle, where I didn't had any problems with the starting ship, it lacked in speed and fuel consumption to the point that I gave up on the story arcs.
The increase in crew abilities was nice to, but again I found myself to never use the surplus gained over the typical battle template with the F.C..
So is there a reason to go for a new ship anyway?

[Råb!d]

I think there is, when you need more space for upgrades. The Fidelis Cutter is a nice smallish ship and does well. Although there are possibly better ships, like that Guardian one maybe.

If you start with the Juror, which can be made into a very capable ship (plus a good starting amount of money) it lacks space. You could easily find several ships with great speed and much more space for things.

I tried the biggest ship available from the beginning and didn't find it all that great (assuming it's comparable to the one you picked).

[Trese Brothers]

@daimon - you can make upgrades to bug ships to increase their Fuel capacity and look at upgrading their Hyowerwarp and Void Engine to be more travel focused. Another option is to look at some of the mid sized ship options instead of going up to the biggest mass, which is naturally slow, fuel chugging monster.

Larger ships are not necessarily better, just different.

[Daimon]

@Trese Brothers
That was somehow my issue, when upgrading the Sword Battlecruiser to my needs, I somehow end up using a lot of components to craft a ship that gives everything a smaller ship gives me in a larger hull. Weapon-wise I use the same 2x torpedo launcher + 1x railgun for boarding cover fire as in the smaller hull, it's all you could ever need.
I just looked through the stats of ship equal and above the Fidelis and to me it looks like the FD is the perfect mix of stats, efficient in consumption, fast, larger hulls trade of a lot of speed for only marginally more small component slots (which I tend to prefer, for I only need 2-3 medium weapons).
I start another palythrough with the FD now and I'm gonna share my experience, but somehow it seems to me that all the other ships are being made obsolete except for roleplaying reasons maybe.

[Daimon]

PS: Maybe rename the Fidelis Cutter to Cookie Cutter *badum ts* No disrespect, great game and I enjoy it!

[219A730]

Last playthrough on impossible my Fidelis Cutter lasted all the way to endgame. Vengeance Class is slightly better, especially for more crew, but is significantly more expensive to setup at 500K credit.

At the end of that playthrough, I felt derpy by buying the Titan instead of the Battlecruiser.

On my new playthrough, I'm trying out the M3400 Bolt Raptor. I plan on getting Traveler Engine for 29 speed. It's only 1 speed slower than M2400 Traveler. Bolt Raptor has the most slots for a M3400 but costs 400K credit.

[Trese Brothers]

Hmmm, what I was trying to point out is that while you *can* try to reproduce the qualities of a small fast ship in a large ship, you're basically trying to swim upriver. Instead, use large ships for what they are best at -- build out a 300+ cargo hold, or install all the best exploration modules, or stack ship boosters until you have 112 Navigation, or keep the ship lean and hire 20 specialist crew members, or achieve 60% armor and shield with room to spare, or build out a mission ship with room for 6 prisoners and passengers and tour the galaxy reaping the rewards. Or, with a really big ship, mix and match multiple of these goals. Do *big* ship things, don't chase small ship goals.

On the FC, you can def get a lot of mileage out of starting ships. However, it's highly difficulty dependent.

[219A730]

For what it's worth, I find diplomat piracy much easier done on larger ships than smaller ones due to crew and cargo limitations. Getting good loot from smugglers pay off in the long run.

I find bigger ships have better staying power and crew flexibility provided you build the ship properly. If you camp orbital ops, I think big ships are better.

I still find bigger ships more powerful overall than smaller ships but their nimbleness allow them to outplay larger ships.

This is just me, but I like that big ships play differently from smaller ships, and not just a straight upgrade. It gives more gameplay variety.

[Råb!d]

I would imagine that a bigger, slower ship is hit by weapons fire more often. However, it can have more weapons at it's disposal.

[happybjorn]

Early game, yes, big ships get hit more, later on it can get to be about even.

Bigger ships are generally better than small ships at everything except long distance travel. The reason is skill pools, which scale better into the late game on large ships; small ships will cap out their skill pools by the time the crew reaches somewhere between level 10 and 15.

I'm quite impressed with the Callus Freighter for a 3400 mass ship. All of the 6000 mass ships are good, but my preference is the Raptor Class, it has the best component layout, highest starting shields and fuel capacity, but low hp and armor (neither of which concern me much). My experience with the Vengence Class was from before the dry dock update and it was terrible when first purchased, took forever to upgrade, and was amazing once fully upgraded.

[JimmysTheBestCop]

Originally posted by Trese Brothers:

Hmmm, what I was trying to point out is that while you *can* try to reproduce the qualities of a small fast ship in a large ship, you're basically trying to swim upriver. Instead, use large ships for what they are best at -- build out a 300+ cargo hold, or install all the best exploration modules, or stack ship boosters until you have 112 Navigation, or keep the ship lean and hire 20 specialist crew members, or achieve 60% armor and shield with room to spare, or build out a mission ship with room for 6 prisoners and passengers and tour the galaxy reaping the rewards. Or, with a really big ship, mix and match multiple of these goals. Do *big* ship things, don't chase small ship goals.

On the FC, you can def get a lot of mileage out of starting ships. However, it's highly difficulty dependent.

"Do Big Ship things" Needs to be a bark in the game. I agree so much with this statement. You don't get a big ship to do the same things you are doing in your small ship. You will be disappointed. You don't buy a tractor trailer truck because its bigger then your ford focus.

Big Ship builds to be really rewarding to the player are completely different then small ship builds.

[Trese Brothers]

The carrier / fighter update will also further add new "big ship things" :)

[Boku]

Originally posted by Daimon:

@Trese Brothers
That was somehow my issue, when upgrading the Sword Battlecruiser to my needs, I somehow end up using a lot of components to craft a ship that gives everything a smaller ship gives me in a larger hull. Weapon-wise I use the same 2x torpedo launcher + 1x railgun for boarding cover fire as in the smaller hull, it's all you could ever need.

The idea that a big ship still has the same reactor power as a small ship, and can only fire the same weapons, is a bit strange. If anything, smaller ships are better combatants. If you build one correctly, you have the same firepower as a big ship and you're hardly ever hit.

[Trese Brothers]

Originally posted by Boku:

The idea that a big ship still has the same reactor power as a small ship, and can only fire the same weapons, is a bit strange. If anything, smaller ships are better combatants. If you build one correctly, you have the same firepower as a big ship and you're hardly ever hit.

I would argue that is a very easy fallacy to fall in to. The pool caps possible on well-built larger ships completely decimate smaller ships. Difficulty is a big consideration of course and the skill of any given AI ship builder that you encounter.

[JimmysTheBestCop]

Originally posted by Trese Brothers:

I would argue that is a very easy fallacy to fall in to. The pool caps possible on well-built larger ships completely decimate smaller ships. Difficulty is a big consideration of course and the skill of any given AI ship builder that you encounter.

I think its the efficiency vs effectiveness battle. You have a capital ship with all those component slots. It just takes more money, effort and time. That is why a lot of times you see forum posts about going smaller for ship combat. Appearance wise it looks to be more efficient.

So you drop 1.5 million credits on a ship but it might need 2 million in upgrades and take 3-6 months in dry dock to complete. I know most of the time thats why I personally go smaller. It not necessarily that the smaller ships get more dice but you can max it out way cheaper and usually faster turn around time.

A lot to do with perception, appearance and efficiency I am guessing and less to do with actual dice pools.

[Trese Brothers]

@JimmysTheBestCop - personally, I'm glad to see the conversation flopped. All through the EA, small ships were trashed by players as unplayable in comparison to large ships. Over time, players have figured out how to use their attributes and size *effectively* and *efficiently* as you say and now the old meta is standing on its head :D I see more players arguing against large ships than small ships these days and very few comments that small ships are "completely unplayable"