Town of Salem 2 roles content + early balances?

[MaxBlue001]

Since BMG haven't officially proposed TOS2 on steam to "wishlist early", i guess i will start a discussion here.

There will be 2 things in this discussion. One: listing all the current roles: new roles, reworked roles, same role, and removed roles from TOS1. Two: i will share some unofficial changes on what i think might happen in the future. Please keep in mind i'm NOT a TOS2 tester, so my knowledge on specifics is very limited. I'm only using the info i found on youtube. That info can also change at any point, so don't expect all the info i'm going to share here to be permanent.

Town of Salem 2 Roles

New roles

• Coroner: attempt to link a dead body to someone, trying to find it's killer.
  
  
• Seer: compare the factions of 2 players (same or not). Exceptions: can't choose self or a revealed mayor
  
  
• Deputy: during DAY: can shoot any player (powerful attack) (only once?). Like vigi, if shooting town, you die immediately (by lynching. This doesn't end the day, and someone else can by lynched next as normal)
  
  
• Monarch (unique): chosen players (get knighted) get +1 vote power. Monarch have basic defence while a knighted player is alive. Can't knight same player twice the entire game
  
  
• Prosecutor (unique): can choose to lynch anyone, twice in a game (max 1 per day). If lynching a townie this way, the prosecutor die immediately. The day immediately end after a prosecution, regardless of the result
  
  
• Admirer: during day, can ask a player to openly reveal his role to others (the proposal) If they accept: they become lovers (die together?). If not, everyone will know the proposal failed (which can rise suspicions). Once you have a lover, you can't propose anyone else.
  
  
  
  
• Dreamweaver (unique): attempt to drive players insane. insane players can't use DAY abilities, random vote during day, random target at night. If a town member visit an insane townie, that player will no longer be insane. Otherwise, insanity is permanent
  
  
• Conjuror (unique): during day: can attack one player (not d1) (maybe only once?)
  
  
• Ritualist (unique): attempt to guess a player role at night. If right, that player is killed (unstoppable). (maybe limited amount of kills) If wrong, your identity is revealed (like ambusher in TOS1) to everyone alive.
  
  
• Wildling (unique): see the identity of any town members visiting, AND the identity of whoever they visit (similar to an "evil" spy + LO combo). Doesn't have the bug ability. Wildling doesn't know the roles, but some can be deduced / limited with educated guess.
  
  
  
  
• Baker (unique): give bread to players. When 3 living players have a bread, transform into famine. You die if there is less than 3 players alive (with bread) before transforming
  
  
• Famine (unique): the night after you transform, anyone with no bread dies. Players with bread can survive up to 3 extra days before dying of starvation. Each night, famine can reduce that time for one player by one day
  
  
• Soul collector (unique): each night, if visiting a player that die the same night, collect a soul. Each night, you passively gain one extra soul. When you have 6 souls, you transform into death
  
  
• Seath (unique): the start of the next night after you transform, death automatically wins (if he is alive), killing everyone with an unstoppable attack. This can only be prevented if death is lynched the day after he transform (only 1 chance for town to lynch death)
  
  
  
  
• Doomsayer (not unique, maybe bug?): each night, select 3 people. If you guess the roles of ALL 3, you kill all of them (unstoppable), you leave the "active" town (to not block the rest of town, like being kingmaker) and win the game at the end (need to verify: on failure: no penalty?)
  
  
• Shroud: each night: can kill or shroud a player. Shrouding a player will attack ALL players that visit your target, UNLESS your target stay home. Shrouded players will be shown as sus to TI this night only

Reworked roles (from TOS1)

• Investigator: no longer get a list of roles (like sheriff/exe/ww). Instead: tells you if the person killed or not this night. Note: this likely mean vigilantes will show sus to invests. (To verify: interaction with necromancer + necronomicon)
  
  
• Lookout: same general ability (no mention of a visit limit, like 3 in tos1). Lookout no longer visit (can counter rampaging roles like werewolf)
  
  
• Psychic: mostly the same as tos1 (coven DLC). In addition: psychic can target 1 person that WILL be in the vision. Can help reduce possibilities if there is a known town (especially on odd nights, while trying to find evils)
  
  
• Spy: need to clarify: "info cannot be fooled"...
  
  
• Transporter -> Trickster: no longer swap people around. Instead, will redirect attacks on SELF to someone else, like transing yourself. NOTE: this only affect attackers, not other roles like arsonists, potion masters using reveal potion, ... (3 uses). This role act like a different kind of veteran, but only for killers
  
  
• Jailor (unique): can't jail n1. Can't jail same player twice in a row. If killing a townie: can no longer JAIL people (not just losing his exec)
  
  
• Mayor (unique): can't reveal d1. When revealed, his defence is permanently "none" (need to verify: can't be protected at all? crusaders can't save mayor?). He can also whisper and be whispered to while revealed
  
  
• Bodyguard: now have 2 self vests
  
  
• Amnesiac: is now a town role (instead of a neutral role) and WILL automatically remember the 1st town role that die at the start of the day. Amnesiac can remember a role that was stoned / changed with an Enchanter
  
  
• Escort -> Tavern Keeper. Can't rb the same player twice in a row
  
  
• Retributionist: Can use dead corpses with no uses limits
  
  
  
  
• Enchanter (unique): combine framer (unlimited) and forger (2 uses). Frames are permanent until one TI check them. ALL coven roles will know the original role / will of an altered dead player
  
  
• Disguiser -> Illusionist (unique): make a coven member appear inno to TI. Coven under illusion won't trigger TP like BG or trappers
  
  
• Janitor -> Medusa (unique): can visit players from the start (without necronomicon). Doesn't kill players on his own (unless with necronomicon). If target player dies, he get stoned. All coven members will see stoned players's role and will
  
  
• Mafioso -> Coven Leader (unique): no longer control players. Get necronomicon first: give the coven leader powerful attack (+ rb immunity) OR basic defence
  
  
• Witch (unique): is a coven role (not a neutral evil). Abilities are mostly the same, except he can't control the same player two nights in a row (otherwise: the ability will fail)
  
  
• Consort -> Poisoner (unique): act like a consort each night. Can also poison a player ONCE. Poison can be healed by a cleric (even if poisoner have necronomicon)
  
  
• Consig -> Potion Master (unique): only have reveal and healing potions (unlimited uses). Reveal potion reveal role to all coven members (acting like a consig). With necronomicon, can use attack potion (idk if there is a difference with a normal coven attack)
  
  
• Blackmailer -> Voodoo Master: (unique): cannot read whispers. Cannot silence (aka BM) same player twice in a row.
  
  
  
  
• Executioner (now unique). executioner can choose a player each night. If that player is lynched next day, executioner win AND immediately kill a random guilty / abstain vote. After that, executioner leave town. Apparently, exes can also choose evil players?
  
  
• Serial Killer: after 2 kills in a row, next attack will be powerful + rampaging

Same roles

Sheriff
Tracker (need to explain: "info cannot be fooled")
Veteran (not unique for now)
Vigilante
Doctor (renamed Cleric in tos2. Abilities are identical)
Crusader
Trapper


Ambusher -> Jinx (unique) (note: receive necronomicon last)
Hex Master (unique)
Necromancer (unique) (note: can use stoned roles, Can use original role from enchanted dead player)

Juggernaut -> Berserker (unique) + War (unique) (on 3rd kill, berserker transform into war)
Plaguebearer (unique)
Pestilence (unique)

Jester (is now unique)
Pirate (is NO LONGER unique...) (note: you die if there isn't enough players to plunder)
Werewolf (not unique? bug?)
Arsonist

Removed roles

Vampire hunter
Vampire
Medium
Transporter* (trickster role have limited similarities)
Guardian Angel
Hypnotist
Survivor

[MaxBlue001]

Realistic changes:

1. Veteran return to being unique (no, this isn't a yu gi oh banlist change)
   
   
2. Pirate return to being unique
   
   
3. Jester return to not unique (maybe max 2-3?)
   
   
4. Coven team: max 4 main members (is currently 5) (only 3 main members in TT games?)
   
   
5. Dreamweaver: nerf: "Insane" ability work for only 1-2 nights (was permanent before)
   
   
6. Baker / Famine nerf: need 4 people to have a bread before transforming (was 3)
   - if 4 players have bread with any number of other players (even 0), baker will transform, and players with no bread dies the next night, as normal
   - if 3 players have bread with NO other player, baker will also transform. However, if there is more than 3 players alive, regardless on how many bread are present, baker can't transform.
   - if there is as most 2 living players (other than baker), baker dies
   
   
7. doomsayer nerf: if one triple guess fails, you cannot guess the following night. You can make another guess in 2 nights.
   
   
8. Trickster buff: able to visit someone else to redirect attackers visiting them.
   Ex: trickster visit player A and will make attackers visit player B. If a killer try to kill player A, he will kill player B instead. If a killer try to attack the trickster, the trickser die like normal. Note: this only affect attackers actions, not other actions (ex: TI checking player A, potion master using reveal potion on player A, ...). Ability targetting works like transporter in tos1. Also, can use ability 4 times (either on self or on someone else) (was 3)
   
   
9. Mayor / TP intractions rework: TP can protect mayor (like any other town). However, once they visit mayor, they can't protect them for the following 2 nights. Trappers can't visit revealed mayor at all.
   
   
10. Medusa buff: regain his stone gaze ability (like evil veteran). Can only stone gaze 2 times. (stoen gaze kill and stone). Note: medusa can't stone gaze at home AND visit someone else
    
    
11. Poisoner buff: have a total of 2 poisons. Can't poison n1, and they have a 1 night cooldown
    
    
12. Executioner nerf:
    - have a 1 night cooldown before being able to change target (can still choose a player night 1)
    - the target must be town in order to work (inlucing roles like jailor, mayor, ... at the risk of the executioner to push them). If the target isn't town, the ability will fail for this night, but he can try again the next night. He doesn't get the exact role of the target, regardless if the target work or not (except that he know if he is town or not).
    
    
13. Necromancer / retributionist buff: each TOWN corpse can be used a total of 2 times. Note that corpses uses count both retributionists and necromancers uses (ex: both retributionist and necromancer can use the same corpse the same night, but both won't be able to use it the next night. They will both be notified that the corpse was used by someone else). For necromancer: any non-town role can only be used once.
    
    
14. Hex Master "buff": like arsonist, hex master will see which players are currently hexed. This doesn't change any mechanics involving hexes.
    
    
15. Arsonist nerf: active douses have a 1 night cooldown. Arsonist can active douse starting at n1 (but aren't forced to do it, they can wait for n2 instead). Passive douses are still working normally, even when active douse is on cooldown. Arsonists can ignite at any time, regardless if they are on cooldown or not. Arsonist can clean themselves while they are on cooldown. if arsonist is rb'ed / jailed, the cooldown is still reduced (ex: arsonist actively douse someone n1, then got rb'ed n2, then can actively douse someone n3).
    

[Flavorable]

MaxBlue001 eredeti hozzászólása:

Since BMG haven't officially proposed TOS2 on steam to "wishlist early"

They have, it just always takes a while for Steam to give approval before a game shows up in the store. :D

[Lucifer ★✬]

Good to see the "d1 x role call" won't be a thing anymore, being alot of evil roles will take that as free wins

[Pim]

Lucifer ★✬ eredeti hozzászólása:

Good to see the "d1 x role call" won't be a thing anymore, being alot of evil roles will take that as free wins

Depends people can lure evils into killing themselves/revealing themselves tbh by lying about their roles.

[MaxBlue001]

Flavorable eredeti hozzászólása:

MaxBlue001 eredeti hozzászólása:

Since BMG haven't officially proposed TOS2 on steam to "wishlist early"

They have, it just always takes a while for Steam to give approval before a game shows up in the store. :D

Sorry for being impatient :D



And yeah, because of riles like ritualist, it will require town to be very cautious about claiming now. Even if you can try to fake a claim for D1 / D2, eventually, you will need to reveal your real role. Depending how smart the ritualist (and other roles like that) are, this is still a big threat.

D2 VFR will definitely going to be more dangerous for town. And from my experience in all any, very few players know how to do an effective, productive VFR. So i imagine evils winning often when they have a role like ritualist.

BTW, just saw a TOS2 gameplay youtube video where players whispered a revealed mayor. So there is that now.

[Scyobi_Empire]

There's a TOS2? Nice!

[lucasexelby]

The release date for the beta/early access is currently the 26th of May (Very soon) I belive this is the date it will appear on wishlist (Accounting for time to post and approve game)

[Lucifer ★✬]

Pim eredeti hozzászólása:

Lucifer ★✬ eredeti hozzászólása:

Good to see the "d1 x role call" won't be a thing anymore, being alot of evil roles will take that as free wins

Depends people can lure evils into killing themselves/revealing themselves tbh by lying about their roles.

ture. just 1 more reason it wount be a legit thing anymore

[The T 123]

Why not have it where the Dead can vote at night on who is going to die next and if they are right they can earn coins to use in game? Bonus coins if they can predict how they die.

[MaxBlue001]

The T 123 eredeti hozzászólása:

Why not have it where the Dead can vote at night on who is going to die next and if they are right they can earn coins to use in game? Bonus coins if they can predict how they die.

This is asking for friends to exploit getting lot of coins. Which will likely ruin the game economy for BMG.

[I>U]

Community made ToS great, not BMG. Traitors in Salem proved that very well.

Anyway, have fun balancing ToS2 in their stead. I will be checking it in some years, so do it properly, please

[MaxBlue001]

I mean, BMG aren't the ones playing the game directly, it's the community. Of course BMG need the community's opinion to fix things.

Let's also not forget that not the entire community made ToS great. From my several games in all any, i can tell you it is fairly difficult to find people who have the basic minimum knowledge. Exemples include: very inneficient VFR that help evils more than town (keep in mind, i'm talking about ALL ANY, not ranked.), mafia basically outting themselves, town having 0 strategy and / or coordination, lazy NE asking for a free win d1 / d2, townies not even doing their roles correctly / passive, afk players, leavers, ... Of course, i'm talking about games that are close enough to being normal, not games with 4 maf + 3 SK + 2 arso vs 6 townies with bad roles.

[I>U]

MaxBlue001 eredeti hozzászólása:

I mean, BMG aren't the ones playing the game directly, it's the community. Of course BMG need the community's opinion to fix things.

Let's also not forget that not the entire community made ToS great. From my several games in all any, i can tell you it is fairly difficult to find people who have the basic minimum knowledge. Exemples include: very inneficient VFR that help evils more than town (keep in mind, i'm talking about ALL ANY, not ranked.), mafia basically outting themselves, town having 0 strategy and / or coordination, lazy NE asking for a free win d1 / d2, townies not even doing their roles correctly / passive, afk players, leavers, ... Of course, i'm talking about games that are close enough to being normal, not games with 4 maf + 3 SK + 2 arso vs 6 townies with bad roles.

Sorry, mate, I guess worded that wrong. I meant people supporting this game initially (2nd kickstarter and mafia forums) made the ruleset, not BMG. Traitors of Salem, on the other hand, was their creation solely.

I don't know how they are going to interract with their players this time, but I won't be the one doing their job.

[MaxBlue001]

Wasn't traitor of salem a "port" of the game Among Us with the Salem's universe?

[Lucifer ★✬]

MaxBlue001 eredeti hozzászólása:

Wasn't traitor of salem a "port" of the game Among Us with the Salem's universe?

it was a "among us like" game