So the spy is useless now ? (from now i mean for a long time prob)

[Ortokolo]

i was not playing the game for a year and this month i said it would be fun to comeback to ToS.and my first game i was Spy.I thought okay it is easy read messages night look whispers etc.
But when night came i saw i have an ability which is bugging someone apperently.

I thought it was like "u bug someone then if maf comes it'll be like (playername) visited your target" but it was not all it said was mafia did this mafia did that.

i mean i am pretty little late but what is the point of this bugging ? what does it gives me ? i mean i only see what happened to (playername) earlier than town.

then 1-2 games after i got spy again,but now i was like well i can use it to get arso or gf then.and mafia attacked my target but he lived so i was like "Hey town this guy immune.he was attacked but not dead" we lynched the guy and nope he was just jailed town member so next night maf.

and that was my bad understanding so i checked out salem wiki more about new spy role (new to me :p ) and i saw message stuff that i'll have if my target is this or that.

But as i said what is the point of seeing this message "Your target was killed by the Serial Killer they jailed" ?
Only to let you know earlier ? i mean when day comes whole town is going to see what your targets role anyways and if that jailor is not stupid he would leave a will with the name of the killer.Which has nothing to do with this "Your target was killed by the Serial Killer they jailed" message.

as i said i am pretty late but i really liked spy role it had so many abilities especially seeing peoples whispers because we could actually catch people like witch or any stupid mafia who whispers.

i really would love to see what you guys think about this spy i mean or give me quick tip about dealing with it.

[uzze]

Let's say that the jailor died to an SK and you didn't get the message "killed by the sk they jailed"? You could prevent a possible town member being lynched. Or what if the jailor had no will? Any information is good information.

Bugging is usually unrewarding, but when it does, it usually confirms you 100% as a spy.

I'll give you an example of what happened to me earlier:
As a spy on N1 I got the messages "Your target was transported" and "Your target was attacked but their defense was too strong".

-So my target got transported with an immune.
-I was also given the name of the immune since maf visited them.
-and I was also confirmed spy since I told them who got transported before anyone said anything.

The immune turned out to be the GF.

The only problem I have with spy is information overload and not enough will space. Maybe bugging could make you able to see their whispers during the day, but then there would be way more information to save.

[Ortokolo]

Originally posted by uzzelu:

Let's say that the jailor died to an SK and you didn't get the message "killed by the sk they jailed"? You could prevent a possible town member being lynched. Or what if the jailor had no will? Any information is good information.

Bugging is usually unrewarding, but when it does, it usually confirms you 100% as a spy.

yea i thought that think about what if jailor didn't leave will or not getting "by the sk they jailed" part which is a bit crucial when it happens too..i mean every role is something but spy role got more cons then pros with this thing.

but the other thing you mentioned is not really rewarding for other game modes like all any or rainbow in case that you as a confirmed spy would probably gain many killings to take you down.
it can work in modes like classic ( which has not that many bad guys) or UR-R (which has more maf and 2 neutral potential threat so a lesser chance then classic one)

and the will thing is another one too

but about old whisper mechanic i would say seeing whispers was way better.like a witch whispering to a mafioso he controlled. you would get both the witch and the mafioso and no need to write it to your will down too just confirm yourself and wrote their message and while you are at it you can get other maf members if they say you are exe (etc.etc)

but all and all it's good to know what i think is wrong being right for other people so thanks

[Deagle Trainee]

I wasn't here in the spy's original form, and was very confused when I finally had to play as spy. But while being a spy can be information overload, the biggest hindrance to it is the limited will space. But once you get the hang of the role, it could really make it easier for town to win. If maf hits an immune, that person is automatically outed by a spy's results. And you can automatically confirm yourself by relaying everything that's happened to the person you bugged, assuming it was a confirmed role like Jailor.

i.e. you bug jailor n1. You get a message that jailor was rb'd as well as knowing which targets maf visited that night. You've now confirmed yourself and a potential escort/consort. Paired with a lo, that can be a devastating combo for evils. I personally try to target spies, since it makes it harder for maf to hide under the radar. It even puts them at a disadvantage when they happen to attack an immune early on in the match.


Personally, it sounded like spy was op. A role so strong that it could keep mafia disorganized day and night by simply existing, doesn't really sound like something I would want to play against. That being said, I hope they do increase the character limit in wills. It would greatly benefit spies, los, and meds.

[piehop7]

so you saw who the mafia was and hung the guy they visited?

[Ortokolo]

Originally posted by piehop7:

so you saw who the mafia was and hung the guy they visited?

i can't see who the mafia is it only says mafia visited so we can't just lynch someone without knowing it u know ?

[Flavorable]

Originally posted by Ortokolo:

Originally posted by piehop7:

so you saw who the mafia was and hung the guy they visited?

i can't see who the mafia is it only says mafia visited so we can't just lynch someone without knowing it u know ?

Yes you can. If you've sussed out who is NOT mafia (i.e. the people who were visited by mafia), it leaves a very short list with remaining people who are very likely to be mafia.
You then Vote For Role those people, and whoever's role does not "feel" right, makes no sense, does not fit in the claimspace, etc etc, is your mafia.

The game isn't always about solid proof, it's also about deduction and scumreading.

[Junk]

Now you can see who mafia visits, but not the mafia themselves, you can also see things like ppl being transported with bugs. you cant read maf chat anymore because they thought it was OP i guess? (the bugging and knowing visits are much better in coven then in regular mode)

[KaszkaManna]

Spy got nerfed to oblivion and it's pretty weak in all any mode.
I'd say: any other role > spy > retrib > medium
Before the nerf it was sth like: jailor > mayor(pre nerf) > spy > other roles

[Regentapple]

Spy was better when they could see private whispers like the blackmailer. Now they can't and that sucks.

[uzze]

I feel like there is something wrong with the spy role as my will get's full very early on in the game and it becomes a struggle.

Bugging is generally uneventful. To be useful at all, you need to be on a doctor who heals someone or a transported target.

Maybe bugging shouldn't give any information like that and just allow spies to see their bugged targets whispers during the day.

[jasque101478]

Maybe a solution for spy would be to see all maf messages at night, but no names. Slightly more powerful without breaking the game (any more than it already is; my bugaboo is the completely worthless neutral roles.)

I agree about bug - it is a waste.

[KaszkaManna]

Originally posted by jasque101478:

Maybe a solution for spy would be to see all maf messages at night, but no names. Slightly more powerful without breaking the game (any more than it already is; my bugaboo is the completely worthless neutral roles.)

I agree about bug - it is a waste.

Spy could never see mafia names.