Vigilante vs Serial Killer/ Werwolf/ Arsonist

[tiberiansun371alexw]

Serial Killers, Werewolves, and Arsonists all have night immunity.

So if they are the only ones capable of killing town, is there is point of vigilantes shooting?

If a Vigilinate gets it wrong, the town effectivly loses two people. If he gets it right, he gets to report his action the next day.

If the Vigilante was proven Town, then people will likely hang the neutral killer. But... if he was proven town they could have just done the hanging and skip the potshot.

If the Vigilante was unproven, then shooting doesn't do much. Unless a Lookout saw him in action, the claim to shoot something and find it immune could just be an evil-doer claiming outside his investigation results.

So do Vigilantes basically have no useful ability against these guys? Someone suggested potshots can be effective to poke around if spies and lookouts are the only investigative roles left and no one can find holes in anyone's claims. But if you are desperate enough to use potshots, random hanging works just as well.

[Vepar]

VIGIs are basically to use against mafia, witches, whatever but NK roles needed a buff against them. They're still useful to point out someone is immune, wether the town believes you or not.

[tiberiansun371alexw]

Publicado originalmente por Vepar:

VIGIs are basically to use against mafia, witches, whatever but NK roles needed a buff against them. They're still useful to point out someone is immune, wether the town believes you or not.

Well, I know their intended role is to kill mafia and the Serial Killer and Arsonists would be pathetic without basic defense. So I'm not suggesting Vigilante be able to kill them. And to be hoenst by the time Mafia is dead, the Vigilante did his job by directly killing Mafia, by making Mafia have to work around him, and by voting.

I'm just wondering what the point of shooting is at the end. If you think the guy is evil amd you are proven, use town majority to lynch the target. If you aren't proven, you can indeed test night immunity but no one is going to belive you.

When it's come down to this, it's almost as if it's viable just to pat yourself on the back for a job well done and relax in the night and rememeber to pay attention when the voting comes out.

[Vepar]

Publicado originalmente por tiberiansun371alexw:

Publicado originalmente por Vepar:

VIGIs are basically to use against mafia, witches, whatever but NK roles needed a buff against them. They're still useful to point out someone is immune, wether the town believes you or not.

Well, I know their intended role is to kill mafia and the Serial Killer and Arsonists would be pathetic without basic defense. So I'm not suggesting Vigilante be able to kill them. And to be hoenst by the time Mafia is dead, the Vigilante did his job by directly killing Mafia, by making Mafia have to work around him, and by voting.

I'm just wondering what the point of shooting is at the end. If you think the guy is evil amd you are proven, use town majority to lynch the target. If you aren't proven, you can indeed test night immunity but no one is going to belive you.

When it's come down to this, it's almost as if it's viable just to pat yourself on the back for a job well done and relax in the night and rememeber to pay attention when the voting comes out.

Well if NK is the only thing left, and there's no more mafia, you're likely get killed trying to prove yourself to the town, either by NK or town itself, wasting precious day time and town might lose majority over that. Better to just be a voting voice at that point. But it all depends on the situation, if the town can afford to lose one more member fine, try to shoot the NK, but usuatlly that's not the case.

[tiberiansun371alexw]

Publicado originalmente por Vepar:

Well if NK is the only thing left, and there's no more mafia, you're likely get killed trying to prove yourself to the town, either by NK or town itself, wasting precious day time and town might lose majority over that. Better to just be a voting voice at that point. But it all depends on the situation, if the town can afford to lose one more member fine, try to shoot the NK, but usuatlly that's not the case.

Yeah usually it's not the case... but even if you have something like 5 town one of which is mayor vs the neutral killing vs neutral evil (especially those won executioners who can do whatever they want), I still question the use of trying to test it out. If people beleived you were vigilante in the begining, you could just hang who you tried to test at night. And testing and saying "Oh, i tried to kill X but X is immune so you didn't get the message" is something any evil can do.

[Vepar]

Publicado originalmente por tiberiansun371alexw:

Publicado originalmente por Vepar:

Well if NK is the only thing left, and there's no more mafia, you're likely get killed trying to prove yourself to the town, either by NK or town itself, wasting precious day time and town might lose majority over that. Better to just be a voting voice at that point. But it all depends on the situation, if the town can afford to lose one more member fine, try to shoot the NK, but usuatlly that's not the case.

Yeah usually it's not the case... but even if you have something like 5 town one of which is mayor vs the neutral killing vs neutral evil (especially those won executioners who can do whatever they want), I still question the use of trying to test it out. If people beleived you were vigilante in the begining, you could just hang who you tried to test at night. And testing and saying "Oh, i tried to kill X but X is immune so you didn't get the message" is something any evil can do.

Yeah, aside from a lookout watching your target, and actually seeing you visited your target, there's no way to actually prove you went to shoot someone. And even then, That's something and NK can do, or a Godfather, visit another immune and claim they were VIG trying to shoot.

It's easier and faster just to hang either the VIG claim, or the NK.

[tiberiansun371alexw]

Well at that point, the vigi might as well pat himself for a job well done and focus only on the day, regardless of if he's proven (in which case a hanging solves the problem) or not (in which case everyone else is going to have to figure it out by process of elimination)