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There is still the randomfactor, that witch will kill a mafia without purpose.
Witch is an important role already, because she can win with every evil role and can take control of towns. If the Jailor is known, then she can protect jailed evils. If you make her immune to kill own mafiammembers, then the powerful role is even more OP.
If a witch is killing purposely a mafiamember or is siding with town, then it is gamethrow and you can just report it.
I did report it and i hope it will be dealt with but the way it is now is kind of ridiculous.
Basically Mafia is powerless against a witch that decides to gamethrow last minute.
It's different for NK roles since they're solo players but mafia is more vulnerable to this type of gamethrowing.
Sure it would alter the gameplay a bit, and a witch should have some kind of "spite protection" from mafia too to compensate but it might work.
They added a one time immunity to the Witch and that altered the Witch gameplay drastically.
I just think one role shouldn't have so much power over one whole team of players.
Basically if a witch decides to kill Mafia when they find a GF or a Mafioso, Mafia can't do anything. You can try lynching her, or even admitting you're mafia, but town will most likely just let her kill the mafia off.
I'm ok with witches teaming up with other NK roles against mafia. That's fine, it even leads to some fun scenarios where a witch gains mafia's trust only to betray them later or something, but to be able to just kill mafia while mafia is powerless against it is just bad design.
There was witch, 2 mafia and 1 town. Witch made the GF kill me, and the next day they hanged the godfather. Witch didn't even win. Town did. It's gamethrowing and the kind that can't be prevented.
Other forms of gamethrowing are up to the town, like if the mafia write up other mafia in their wills or whatever, but witch has too much control over mafia.
If a witch decides to team up with the SK, then fine, use SK to kill mafia, lynch the rest, but using the godfather to kill other mafia members is too powerful because mafia is powerless to stop it, especially if they don't know who the witch is.
If a witch teams up with an NK role, the worst that can happen is they know who you are, and they use you every night.
But when you "team up" with a witch as mafia, usually what happens is you tell her who other mafia are so that she doesn't target them. And now witches know who to kill. IF they use a SK to kill the revealed mafia, fine, mafia made a bad deal, they lost. But it's too overpowered for the withc to use mafia to kill mafia simply because mafia has no defense against it. What are they gonna do? Tell the town? The whole point is to pose as town so town doesn't find you.
Mafia should be immune to witches, or at least have a way of dealing with this.
Also I've never experienced a scenario like this. So it doesn't make much sense to change a role for rare cases like this.
"A way of dealing with this" are the rules. That's why this doesn't happen often.
Yes, but vigi dies the next day and jailor loses executes if they shoot/execute a town. There are consequences to their actions which prevent further abuse of the system. There are no consequences of mafia killing mafia except mafia losing, there is nothing to prevent this abuse.
Really? Because a simple solution to this would be to demote whoever killes the mafia to a framer or some low role and make a random person within the mafia the mafioso or GF.
That way, you can have a chance at killing the witch and not being powerless to stop gamethrowing or witch wiping out mafia.
That way, the witch no longer knows for sure who the killing role is anymore, and can't just mop the floor with the mafia.
Also, maybe i'm just unlucky, but i've seen a lot of witches gamethrow for town because their friends are town members and then they "team up with mafia" only to kill them. It's not that uncommon.
Oh do tell what could have been done to prevent this.
There's 1 GF, 1 consig, 1 witch and 1 town. You need 3 votes to lynch.
Go on. Solve the riddle of wiping out the witch that decides to gamethrow.
Depends on the game. Transporters + a witch in the match means everything is random
I mean, should we stop a transporter from transporting townies if one person decides to gamethrow and uses a townie to (for example) shield a jester?
Or should we make Vigi's unable to shoot people because someone shot a revealed mayor?
The witch is fine as it is, removing the ability to control mafia makes it impossible for a witch to confirm herself to mafia, not to mention no witch ever would be able to side with the NK, because they can't control the mafia to kill their own people anymore. Nor can the witch prevent a sucky GF/Mafioso that keeps trying to get her killed just because she's a witch, or simply because they don't want the witch to win with them.
Edit: Also, the mafia isn't powerless to stop it. They can still bus their own GF/Mafioso to ensure the witch doesn't know who the next Mafia Killing role is.
I know, but that's not the point. There was no transporter and the witch even refused to lynch the last town when we could have.
The point is, mafia has no defense against a witch.
Vig dies the next night after killing town so that the witch can't abuse him to kill other townies.
Jailor loses executes if he kills town and that can't be abused either.
Mafia have no control over themselves after witch finds them. They can just afk and die in case the witch knows who mafia are and wants to kill them. Every role has a system against abuse except mafioso and godfather.
Maybe they don't need to be immune to witches, but clearly there's a system missing that would prevent a total wipeout like vig and jailor have.
They have 4 votes vs 1 player who then has to explain why 4 people are accusing them of being immune to a kill shot. Defense is a liability in this game.
So since mafia might betray you to earn town trust, it actually makes it potentially dumb to play witch smart because revealing yourself to mafia can endanger your life if they want to kill the witch and then seem like town. I would be in favor of witch and mafia having a better way of becoming friends. For example if a witch controls mafia then the witch enters into the mafia's team window and can talk to mafia at night.
The faction would get the message that a witch is on their side. They'd still need to whisper, having the same chat at night would be op, but the mafia can't attack the witch anymore, even if they didn't know who the witch is. There's simply not a button next to the name.
This prevents the witch controlling that faction til the end of the game and prevents that faction from killing the witch. And in the end let's say, the witch sided with the mafia, witch got lynched, but she still wins if the mafia wins.
This would prevent witch gamethrowing by controlling the godfather to murder other mafia if she sides with them, and prevent mafia from screwing the witch over.
This can lead to interesting scenarios where the mafia find the witch then threaten to kill her if she doesn't side with them, then the witch has to either side or die (still affected by one time immunity, so mafia neet to waste 2 nights killing the witch, weighing that against just attacking town and risk the witch finding their killing role), meaning she can't just gamethrow so easily.
Or the witch could have sided with the SK but still use the godfather to kill other mafia while sk does his thing.
But the point is, when you do decide to trust each other, neither one can screw the other over. If the witch sodes with the mafia, the mafia can still lynch tje witch to gain towns trust implying she sided with someone else (toen would suspect arso if there's no obvious killing role). But the witch would still win with mafia.
That system would work.
Another very important condition is when someone is offering to ally, it should not say the initiator's name. If the future ally declines the request to ally then you don't want anyone to be exposed right away.
With that in place, I think the following are the ways the alliance can be formed:
1) The witch controls the potential ally. As a day ability they get a list of all players, and the only ones who can be selected are players the witch controlled. At the start of the next night the person receives the alliance request and choose to accept or decline.
2) A consig visits someone and finds out they're the witch. Now the consig gets a day ability which works exactly the same as what I mentioned for the witch in 1)
3) A killing mafia or NK role attacks the witch. If the witch still has their basic defense from the first attack against them and the basic defense would have stopped it (so no WW for example), then in addition to the witch surviving, the attacker learns they're the witch and can choose to ally with them as a day ability. The only problem I see with this is that if anything, WW/Arso are the weakest NK and need the witch ally the most, and yet WW/Arso would kill the witch.