Making the arsonist good

[Pigy]

As we are all aware, the arsonist has the lowest win rate in town of Salem. It has so many flaws and problems that it is very much a joke. With its unreliable and incredibly poor kill power, to having the worst investigate result in the game. This silent "killer" hardly ever gets any kills and when he does, He is usually hung the next day. He needs something to make him good. Here are some of my ideas

Qaulity of life improvements:
Know who is doused
Douse a jailor when jailed
Will trump cl when last alive, like sk does.

Making him better
Immune to rbs
Immune to witch

Making him (almost) viable
All players doused will appear to be arsonist when they die, regardless of how they die.

Though there is no real way to make the arso good and keep him as the arsonist.

[Microsoft227sam]

No

[Pigy]

Originally posted by microsoft227sam:

No

Pls explain

[Glerk]

well when im the Arso i tend to die early on (N1-N4)
and i've never won with it.

it needs a buff.

[LaughingButterCup]

Yes to immune to being rbed but no to being immune to being witched, no moving role should be immune to being witched as that is kinda op. Dousing the jailor would be good but, combined with knowing who you will douse will be way to op as you can easily confirm yourself as invest or something. Also if the game ends up coming to a 1 on 1 with cl and arso will win by default!

[Vandalay]

Honestly I don't see arsonist as any worse off than any other NKs after the last round of buffs. Honestly the biggest buff I could say he needs would be to make witch either immune to dousing, or aware of being doused. (namely the witch can't sanely team up with the arsonist because she has no way to know whether she's doused or not).

Other than that, the arsonist basically has what I consider one of the best possible strategies as an NK. Don't ignite until ignitng is most likely the game winning move. Most early arsonist losses that I see come from them igniting early or mid game... which IMO is a really dumb play. The arsonist is effecively undetectable standing in a crowd of people that all show up as bg/gf/arsonist to an investigator. Yet so many times I'll see the town stuck with 4 possible suspects, then 3 of them burst into flames while town still has solid majority.

[LaughingButterCup]

Originally posted by wtc7200:

Dude arso is the easiest NK right now. Think of some ww buffs.

Not really, SK is a lot easier to win as, though ww could use some buffs!

[Pigy]

Originally posted by wtc7200:

Dude arso is the easiest NK right now. Think of some ww buffs.

Can you honestly tell me you have ever won as an arsonist in ranked? The WW I difficult sure, but it has so much more potential power than an arsonist, who half the time never even gets a kill.

This is the same mentality as the spy change. When spy was merged he still was a decent TI, but everyone went crazy about it and called it the worst role in the game. Then the spy got a relatively useless buff, and people started saying he was good again.

While the buffs for the arso helped him, he is still in dead last for wins, due to his design. Everything I mention try's to actually make the arsonist semi viable while keeping its basic design

[Pigy]

Originally posted by ThisLittlePiggy:

Originally posted by wtc7200:

Dude arso is the easiest NK right now. Think of some ww buffs.

Can you honestly tell me you have ever won as an arsonist in ranked? The WW I difficult sure, but it has so much more potential power than an arsonist, who half the time never even gets a kill.

This is the same mentality as the spy change. When spy was merged he still was a decent TI, but everyone went crazy about it and called it the worst role in the game. Then the spy got a relatively useless buff, and people started saying he was good again.

While the buffs for the arso helped him, he is still in dead last for wins, due to his design. Everything I mention try's to actually make the arsonist semi viable while keeping its basic design

Merged should say nerfed sorry.

[Vandalay]

Originally posted by ThisLittlePiggy:

Originally posted by wtc7200:

Dude arso is the easiest NK right now. Think of some ww buffs.

Can you honestly tell me you have ever won as an arsonist in ranked? The WW I difficult sure, but it has so much more potential power than an arsonist, who half the time never even gets a kill.

Heh, just checked my statistics, (I pretty much exclusively play ranked, and more or less only played ranked practice before that)

Wins as
SK - 3
WW - 5
Arsonist - 5


Honestly I do agree normally SK is a higher chance of winning than the other 2, in spite of my personal skill/luck with him not being so great. I still personally think arsonist has an edge over WW in chances right now though. Whether he gets a kill or not has nothing to do with how close to winning he is.

IMO the reason arsonist has the lowest winrate (if he still does, that hasn't really been anounced since the huge arsonist buff) is most people don't get how to play it to win.

The things that make me facepalm the most.

1. midgame ignitions with no real purpose. The arsonist has a HUGE utility that no other NK has. In short, it's harder to be hidden, the less other people are alive. The arsonist has the best chance of winning, when there's a lot of poeple alive and doused. The only time it's a good idea to do a midgame ignition, is if the mafia is about to take majority, and you think you've doused enough mafia to make it a competition again.

2. Claiming BG, everyone doused shows up as BG/GF/Arso.... unless you are planning on being an idiot and doing the midgame ignition, there's no good reason to claim bg which will red flag you.


Big thing to understand, dying without killing someone, isn't necessarally worse than killing 4 people, an SK that's killed 4 people, and an arsonist that's doused 4 people, are more or less exactly the same distance from victory. (yeah I'm aware the arsonist does have the added difficulty of the mafia killing or town lynching the same people they've already doused negating the kills, but either way, it's still something to use.

[Lucifer ★✬]

arso dosnt have the lowest winrate, before coven i know it was ww. now its prob ww (still) or one of the newer role, like jugg (caz its never ingame)

[Rezzals]

Considering they are burnt to death, you shouldn't also be able to see role and will?

[Rezzals]

I have an idea on how to kind off help him. When you douse someone, you don't douse just them, you douse the whole house. So think if it as a mini rampage. And he can remove gas from houses if he accidentally douses Neutral Evil or himself

[Rezzals]

Originally posted by Andy O.:

Originally posted by LimeCrimeTime:

I have an idea on how to kind off help him. When you douse someone, you don't douse just them, you douse the whole house. So think if it as a mini rampage. And he can remove gas from houses if he accidentally douses Neutral Evil or himself

That would be overpowered. If he can do this every night, that would be a quick win with the arso. Just have everyone doused around day 5.

I dont mean you douse everyone inside, you douse the house.
So when you ignite, you kill everyone inside.

[Vandalay]

Originally posted by LimeCrimeTime:

Originally posted by Andy O.:

That would be overpowered. If he can do this every night, that would be a quick win with the arso. Just have everyone doused around day 5.

I dont mean you douse everyone inside, you douse the house.
So when you ignite, you kill everyone inside.

So, you are talking night 4 doing the equivelant of 3 rampages simultaniously... that's basically an instant destruction of darn near every visiting role in the game at the same time.

[Pigy]

Yeah, that OP, considering he’s the easiest or second easiest nk to win wiith. [/quote]

citation needed.