Stop pretending Toby Fox didn't butcher the soundtrack

["The ⭕⃤ Freezer"]

Hi guys. Freezer here. I am somewhat of an OFF fan seeing as how I was interested in the original, and I think this game is neat. There's a major issue plaguing this remake... the soundtrack. You can see similar takes in both the negative and positive reviews of the game.

( SPOILER, SKIP PARAGRAPH IF INTERESTED IN THE GAME ) Toby fox really only knows how to make good battle music. That's it. If you look at the final theme of the original game, Avatar Beat, it sounds lifeless and has an organ instrument reminding you of death.. Considering the circumstances of the final fight, death surrounds the two final combatnants. Compare this to Toby Foxes interpertation of this fight under his soundtrack CHOSEN ANEW... It's kind of like a sad final boss theme, with a beat in the backround? Then he uses a pepper steak motif at the end, because le nostalgia?


This is all funny... pepper steak isn't in the game for liscensing reasons and toby fox is a... what, multi-millionaire? He couldn't have contributed to helping keep the artistic direction of one of his favorite games? Is this guy an egomaniac? He even tried put a bonetrusel remix in the game guys.


It's fine to call Toby Fox a bum. He knows how to make battle music and video games for teenagers. This project was WAY past him.

[ulichnym]

Yeah Yeah, you're angry.
Thing is, Toby Fox isn't this big bad who you can pin everything on. Most of the soundtrack was produced by two other artists, and the songs toby did work on were in partnership with someone else, the only excpetions being a song for a secret boss and I think enochs boss fight. This isn't some rumor or weak justification, the official OST videos on youtube list these artist by name under their respective songs. The OFF wiki even provides a handy list of who worked on what.

I don't think you've actually thought that hard about the creation of the new soundtrack. Because you've subscribed to the "ego boner" narrative where one dude who "makes games for teenagers" decides to "sodomize" the soundtrack. To put it bluntly, this isn't an actual issue, its just an excuse to get mad, and its just as annoying to see now as it was LAST YEAR.

like seriously, how has this not been put to rest yet?

[ulichnym]

Originally posted by "The ⭕⃤ Freezer":

Originally posted by ulichnym:

Yeah Yeah, you're angry.
Thing is, Toby Fox isn't this big bad who you can pin everything on. Most of the soundtrack was produced by two other artists, and the songs toby did work on were in partnership with someone else, the only excpetions being a song for a secret boss and I think enochs boss fight. This isn't some rumor or weak justification, the official OST videos on youtube list these artist by name under their respective songs. The OFF wiki even provides a handy list of who worked on what.

I don't think you've actually thought that hard about the creation of the new soundtrack. Because you've subscribed to the "ego boner" narrative where one dude who "makes games for teenagers" decides to "sodomize" the soundtrack. To put it bluntly, this isn't an actual issue, its just an excuse to get mad, and its just as annoying to see now as it was LAST YEAR.

like seriously, how has this not been put to rest yet?

I don’t really care what’s been officially said lol I know one guy obsessed with lazy motifs and there is a very lazy motif in the final fight theme

Well I don't know what to tell you.

[Draconic NEO]

Toby Fox isn't the sole one who made music decisions on this game, the new soundtrack was worked on by multiple different people and many questionable decisions were made, the bonetrousel one is the one most people think of but is by far not the only one.

People can ague about that as much as they want, but at this point since the Soundtrack can easily be replaced, one can not only avoid the issue but also can make a more fair comparison by comparing how just the soundtrack alone changes the experience of the game.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3550542435

When comparing different areas and battle themes is that they all have a noticeable and largely negative effect.

Do some people say it sounds fine? Sure.
Do some people think the edit in Star Wars a new hope looks convincing and not horribly fake? Also yeah. Some people have horrible discernment skills, or in many cases they know it's wrong and bad but they are attempting to mislead and gaslight others.

[Thornzzzzz]

i think the OST is better than before

[Uzef]

Toby has a very pigonheld style that doesnt work for a game who's presentation and discussion on moral relativity have actual weight to them and arent just fluff. The soundtrack was deeply mismanaged but id say thats moreso how both the homestuck boys screwed each song they did and nightmargin or bansheebeat weren't allowed more to do. Too many cooks spoil the broth. Even if basic happenstance should have told anyone that toby's juvenile style and simple instrumentation wasn't going to cut it for the industrial esoteric soundtrack that off's is. He's a symptom of a greater problem that you can feel all throughout. James roach also deserves a good rebuke for like everything he did in the soundtrack too. They both were very bad choices for such a vital and stylistically important OST that genuinely told a large portion of the narrative. But it was a poor choice to have so many musicians in the first place.

[ʟǟֆȶ]

the game is just trash, get over it

[The Batter]

Originally posted by "The ⭕⃤ Freezer":

Hi guys. Freezer here. I am somewhat of an OFF fan seeing as how I was interested in the original, and I think this game is neat. There's a major issue plaguing this remake... the soundtrack. You can see similar takes in both the negative and positive reviews of the game.

( SPOILER, SKIP PARAGRAPH IF INTERESTED IN THE GAME ) Toby fox really only knows how to make good battle music. That's it. If you look at the final theme of the original game, Avatar Beat, it sounds lifeless and has an organ instrument reminding you of death.. Considering the circumstances of the final fight, death surrounds the two final combatnants. Compare this to Toby Foxes interpertation of this fight under his soundtrack CHOSEN ANEW... It's kind of like a sad final boss theme, with a beat in the backround? Then he uses a pepper steak motif at the end, because le nostalgia?


This is all funny... pepper steak isn't in the game for liscensing reasons and toby fox is a... what, multi-millionaire? He couldn't have contributed to helping keep the artistic direction of one of his favorite games? Is this guy an egomaniac? He even tried put a bonetrusel remix in the game guys.


It's fine to call Toby Fox a bum. He knows how to make battle music and video games for teenagers. This project was WAY past him.

You forget Toby wasn't the only one. There was Nightmargin, Morusque, James Roach, etc. Don't pin all the blame on Toby. Personally, the only soundtrack I didn't like or didn't find fitting at all was some of James Roach's work. Besides that though, theres a mod that easily brings back the OG OST for the remake.

[TheAntelope]

What is the most timeless thing in the world? Even if answers vary I am sure we can agree that Music is one of them.

OFF simply didnt need a new soundtrack but I know why they have done that because ACC didnt wanted to sign in. While I dont really dislike any of the tracks I just simply think they do not hold a candle compared to the original. And that opinion is fine.

Would you remake the Mona Lisa and say this is the new definitive version? Just food for thought.

[Keepe]

While I do not care for the Toby Fox tracks myself, the music is a non-issue that was solved before the full game was even released ala mods. There are plenty of pressing reasons to absolutely despise this release. Limiting the complaints to the Music is doing a disservice to the vitriol this iteration of OFF deserves. Expand your horizons.

[Keepe]

Originally posted by "The ⭕⃤ Freezer":

OFF quote in bio... yeah. Let the larp begin.

Honey, I've had something OFF-Related in my Steam Profile longer than you've had an account on Steam. That has nothing to do with the fact you're limiting your critique to a solved issue whereas there are so much worse issues in hand. Tobi Fax butchering his tracks isn't the rotten core of this game, it's merely a symptom. Thus I repeat.

Originally posted by Keepe:

Limiting the complaints to the Music is doing a disservice to the vitriol this iteration of OFF deserves. Expand your horizons.

[超リアルＰＥＲＳＯＮ様]

I agree that the soundtrack of OFF is one of the critical pillars of what makes the game good. I also agree that the remade soundtrack falls very short of the original and makes the game less interesting. I *also* agree that Toby Fox is extremely overrated. HOWEVER,

this whole situation is because Alias Conrad Coldwood, understandably, was afraid to sign Fangamer's contract for the inclusion of his work in the re-release. this forced Mortis Ghost to look for new people to make a new soundtrack. Toby Fox became involved, reluctantly, due to Mortis' direct request. Toby is, of course, openly a fan of OFF, and he knew that whatever work he did would most likely fall short of the original and make the fans angry. but he agreed to try his best, to honor Mortis Ghost's request.

I hate the new soundtrack, but it's not like Toby or the other artists convinced Fangamer or Mortis Ghost to delete the original so they could remake it. they all did their best to honor the game they loved, but they were doomed to fail before they even started. there's no replacement for the original.

as others have repeatedly stated, just download the mod that restores the original soundtrack. it works perfectly and sounds great. the re-release is an excellent restoration of the original game IMO, but if you dislike the new graphics and UI design (which were done by Mortis Ghost himself), the original translated RPGMaker release is still pretty easy to find.

[Draconic NEO]

Originally posted by 超リアルＰＥＲＳＯＮ様:

I agree that the soundtrack of OFF is one of the critical pillars of what makes the game good. I also agree that the remade soundtrack falls very short of the original and makes the game less interesting. I *also* agree that Toby Fox is extremely overrated. HOWEVER,

this whole situation is because Alias Conrad Coldwood, understandably, was afraid to sign Fangamer's contract for the inclusion of his work in the re-release. this forced Mortis Ghost to look for new people to make a new soundtrack. Toby Fox became involved, reluctantly, due to Mortis' direct request. Toby is, of course, openly a fan of OFF, and he knew that whatever work he did would most likely fall short of the original and make the fans angry. but he agreed to try his best, to honor Mortis Ghost's request.

I hate the new soundtrack, but it's not like Toby or the other artists convinced Fangamer or Mortis Ghost to delete the original so they could remake it. they all did their best to honor the game they loved, but they were doomed to fail before they even started. there's no replacement for the original.

as others have repeatedly stated, just download the mod that restores the original soundtrack. it works perfectly and sounds great. the re-release is an excellent restoration of the original game IMO, but if you dislike the new graphics and UI design (which were done by Mortis Ghost himself), the original translated RPGMaker release is still pretty easy to find.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss criticism of the Soundtrack by saying to just download the mod I published a guide for. This is a great solution for PC but it isn't viable for people who might want to play the game on other platforms. For these platforms the game is permanently crippled.

People are quick to dismiss the negative impact the new soundtrack has on the game, but I wonder if they'd be singing the same tune if Mortis Ghost had used Suno instead and we still got something of the same quality soundtrack.

[Toxinator77]

I think we all get that the original soundtrack is irreplaceable, IMO you can't replace things like Avatar Beat, Pepper steak, Desperately Safe, Endless Hallway, ect, but that being said i think those that worked on the soundtrack did the best they could at replicating that OFF vibe and i say in certain areas they did a good job. For example, and i might get flak for this: Hour Hand. I'd honestly say that Dedan's original theme, Fake Orchestra, and Hour Hand go hand in hand in terms of how good they sound, they both convey the gravity of the situation well and they both portray Dedan in an excellent and fitting way. I know it's not the best it could've been but i'm just happy to see OFF getting more love, i know that's not a great excuse but hey, if we can get more people's attention, we can just simply say "You like the commercial release? Try the original, it's really good." and maybe even suggest that one really well made fan game HOME which i'd say did really good at making an OFF sounding soundtrack.

[Guse]

Im sure it's been stated here, but Mortis "personally asked the artists to maintain a certain degree of freedom, and thus avoid falling into the somewhat impossible exercise of identically recreating existing atmospheres."(quote by Mortis Ghost on his tumblr post 'About the OFF prologue), so please stop being angry at one of the new composers for what you feel. This decision was made by the creator of the game you like. Also, I must stress, you can still PLAY the original, you can easily mod the og ost in this version in minutes, AND you can stop blaming 1 person on something that is ultimately just your opinion.
Also Pheonix by Toby Fox was a perfect new track for Japhet's boss theme, we gotta be real here.

[Draconic NEO]

Originally posted by Guse:

Im sure it's been stated here, but Mortis "personally asked the artists to maintain a certain degree of freedom, and thus avoid falling into the somewhat impossible exercise of identically recreating existing atmospheres."(quote by Mortis Ghost on his tumblr post 'About the OFF prologue), so please stop being angry at one of the new composers for what you feel. This decision was made by the creator of the game you like. Also, I must stress, you can still PLAY the original, you can easily mod the og ost in this version in minutes, AND you can stop blaming 1 person on something that is ultimately just your opinion.
Also Pheonix by Toby Fox was a perfect new track for Japhet's boss theme, we gotta be real here.

You misunderstand, I don't blame the composers for the soundtrack being bad and ruining the re-release of the game I blame the composers and mortis ghost for screwing up the atmosphere of the game.