Dealing with sunder mind

[Jetrel]

Looks like every single character I make dies to sunder mind.. I get that you can leave the map to avoid it, but that is not an option 90% of the time.. how the hell do you deal with this?

Even at full hp, one cast of it kills me even with healing. Is there some kind of trick to it?

[glass zebra]

Throwing any kind of CC or mental debuff on the caster will instantly interrupt it and so does any damage reflect (e.g. from spine fruit jam cooking).

Most characters will meet that ability first from "Novice of the Sightless Way". Those have 8 HP, 0 AV and pretty much die when you look at them, so rushing or any ranged weapon that can hit is usually enough. Their higher level versions still only have 16 HP and 0 AV, but can have other skills.

Some legendary creatures might generate with it, which is probably the worst case scenario, but that should really not be met by "every single character". If you do meet those and really can not run away, CC is pretty much your best option, but fleeing is probably the best choice in many situations (especially in cases like this where the enemy has CD afterwards).

[Bwixie]

pretty sure Berate will stop them as long as you are in range, and with the mind battle you always know where the attacker is, Telepathy would allow infinite range of the skill but without it it's still a very effective defensive option. :)

usually i just run them down as fast as possible or fire whatever firearm i have in their direction.

[Pizzarugi]

Leave the zone if you're close enough to stairs or the edge. It instantly breaks the connection.

If you're a mutant, you could also consider the Mental Mirror mutation. It reflects an instance of damage to them which immediately disrupts it.

[McFuzz]

Sunder Mind deals like 10 damage ticks and then the final tick deals all of the combined damage again. The trick is to disconnect the psychic battle or chunk healing items; mid game you start coming across Urberries which heal 100 and can easily out-heal most sunder minds assuming you have enough HP to survive the final blast.

If you can't kill them, stunning or dazing them will sever the connection, as they're only able to stand still while doing it. Sprinting straight for them will usually get you there in time, if sprinting off map isn't possible.

The good news is that almost nothing has this. Sightless way guys have it and they are only in a select few locations and are so low level that they can be easily dispatched. There's 1 on level 1 of Grit gate, and sometimes they're in the hills, and that's about the only places you'll see guaranteed ones.

Svardym Elds have every mental mutation, and they're high risk even heading into late game because they can have this at a significantly higher level than Sightless Way guys so try not to get caught by one in the middle of the screen. You should be treating these with care anyway because they're so unpredictable.

[Koop]

When I started I used to die to this all the time. Carry a ranged weapon and shoot them, toss a grenade, or run up and stomp them. They are glass cannons and have no defense.

[Pixel Peeper]

Have movement capabilities sufficient to reliably change screens (border or stairs) to break the connection before the 10th tic hits you.

Have decent Willpower so that your MA is high and the damage insignificant.

Have the Mental Mirror mutation.

Wear a psychic meridian.

Throw a grenade (sleep, stun, etc) at the caster.

Shoot the caster.

Charge the caster.

[Icedfate]

yeah. . .this is all great advice , until the guy uses confuse on you first and then sunder mind. . .for 20 damage each tick. .

[Pixel Peeper]

Originally posted by Icedfate:

yeah. . .this is all great advice , until the guy uses confuse on you first and then sunder mind. . .

If you're unlucky enough get caught in a Confusion followed by a Sunder Mind and are far away from a screen transition and can't teleport to one either (a highly unfortunate set of coincidences)...

Having a high MA (Willpower, Psychic Meridian) also helps against Confusion. Mental Mirror can reflect it, too.

Once affected, Iron Mind can end the Confusion early, or you could just eat a yuckwheat stem (just keep a bunch in a chest in your inventory).

[Icedfate]

when you're confused, all your items turn into gibberish.
so what, am i just supposed to take mental mirror and 30 willpower on every character i make?
it feels like any chimera build is completely rendered useless by one of these guys, given that they can't even take mental mutations.
i mean, if i play long enough, i'm gonna run into one of these guys.

i was doing really well too. a multilimbed melee axes, level 15, 120 hp. I was autoexploring a ruin in the desert and it interrupted me and i see the guy, exactly 2 spaces away, too close to use charge. also, around a corner, which would make him literally impossible to hit with any ranged weapon because of how the game decides to make it hit the walls 99.9% of the time.

i take one step toward him and bam, confused.
I try to attack him and my character just walks in a random direction, then comes sunder mind 20 damage.

i tried to use items, but of course, the confusion turned everything into gibberish.
I only had the one recoiler for joppa, so that was actually possible to find in my gibberish by using the recoiler activated ability, but of couse, . .recoiler can't be used while enemies are close.

it's not even like i never killed one of those seeker before. I killed many of them on my other character who is level 37, but this guy just did so much damage so fast.
20 per tick? what is that? like level 10 on it? did i encounter a higher tier seeker? in the desert?

[Pixel Peeper]

Originally posted by Icedfate:

when you're confused, all your items turn into gibberish.

That's why you put the yuckwheat stems into the chest. The one item in your inventory that can be opened is the one that has yuckwheat in it.

[Icedfate]

Originally posted by Pixel Peeper:

Originally posted by Icedfate:

when you're confused, all your items turn into gibberish.

That's why you put the yuckwheat stems into the chest. The one item in your inventory that can be opened is the one that has yuckwheat in it.

oh, i see. neat trick

[Pixel Peeper]

Originally posted by Icedfate:

i was doing really well too. a multilimbed melee axes, level 15, 120 hp. I was autoexploring a ruin in the desert and it interrupted me and i see the guy, exactly 2 spaces away, too close to use charge. also, around a corner, which would make him literally impossible to hit with any ranged weapon because of how the game decides to make it hit the walls 99.9% of the time.

i take one step toward him and bam, confused.
I try to attack him and my character just walks in a random direction, then comes sunder mind 20 damage.

Ah, I see the problem. Here the issue was that you didn't fully realize how Confusion works, which is understandable. This game has a lot of weird mechanics that aren't obvious at all.

When you're confused, you don't move in random directions. You're in full control of your movements. It's just the visuals that get messed up.

If something was 2 tiles away from you, and you were able to take one step towards it before it used Confusion, then you were adjacent to it. And you knew exactly where it is in relation to you because it didn't move (it used Confusion). You could have started ripping it apart right away. And if it used Sunder Mind right away then it functionally immobilized itself for 10 rounds.

Yeah, it's possible you encountered a legendary Seeker, they have camps here and there and typically have a whole bunch of mind-slaves with them. They're nice to kill or to befriend; they usually carry about 6 Sphynx Salt injectors, and if you have enough positive Reputation with them they can grant you a mental mutation.

[Icedfate]

Originally posted by Pixel Peeper:

Originally posted by Icedfate:

i was doing really well too. a multilimbed melee axes, level 15, 120 hp. I was autoexploring a ruin in the desert and it interrupted me and i see the guy, exactly 2 spaces away, too close to use charge. also, around a corner, which would make him literally impossible to hit with any ranged weapon because of how the game decides to make it hit the walls 99.9% of the time.

i take one step toward him and bam, confused.
I try to attack him and my character just walks in a random direction, then comes sunder mind 20 damage.

Ah, I see the problem. Here the issue was that you didn't fully realize how Confusion works, which is understandable. This game has a lot of weird mechanics that aren't obvious at all.

When you're confused, you don't move in random directions. You're in full control of your movements. It's just the visuals that get messed up.

If something was 2 tiles away from you, and you were able to take one step towards it before it used Confusion, then you were adjacent to it. And you knew exactly where it is in relation to you because it didn't move (it used Confusion). You could have started ripping it apart right away. And if it used Sunder Mind right away then it functionally immobilized itself for 10 rounds.

Yeah, it's possible you encountered a legendary Seeker, they have camps here and there and typically have a whole bunch of mind-slaves with them. They're nice to kill or to befriend; they usually carry about 6 Sphynx Salt injectors, and if you have enough positive Reputation with them they can grant you a mental mutation.

yeah, i guess i didn't understand how confusion worked. . when the visuals got messed up, i just pressed in the direction toward where i "now" saw him, which was different and after that, i completely lost track.

[Pixel Peeper]

Originally posted by Icedfate:

when the visuals got messed up, i just pressed in the direction toward where i "now" saw him, which was different and after that, i completely lost track.

That's a classic. Even highly experienced players do that sometimes, it's just how the human brain works.

[Hyperlynx]

I remember dying to Sunder Mind a lot at first, but I haven't found it's been much of an issue. Ranged weapons, as others have said, really are the key. Even an Issachaari rifle should do the trick for novices. And knowing how confusion works should help a lot, to sprint away if nothing else!

I think situations where you get really screwed by a powerful psychic are very rare. If you're confused and unable to escape or kill them first, or also stunned or frozen or sleep'd or whatever... well, I don't actually think I've seen it happen so far, to be honest. If it did, it's kind of just bad luck. It just happens occasionally with traditional roguelikes - sometimes you just get wiped out out of nowhere by pure bad luck.

I will say, though, that sort of thing seems to happen far less in Caves of Qud than in, say, Nethack.

edit: lol, apparently the initials of the game, CoQ, are censored