What's Eating the Watervine? A Noob's Excerpt: Pt. 1

[BgDaddyDevil]

I could tell you what's eating it, but I won't spoil it for you.

But I *did* just complete that quest. But before I did, I was ready to give up on this game for being too damn hard. Dying by random encounters. Rounding a corner and catching a missile fired by a turret with my face, seemingly for no reason (I'm still trying to come to terms with this one). Hitting the wrong button and having an entire pissed off village to contend with. I didn't want to use any sort of tutorial outside of the one that's baked-in, as I find that I experience the game the way *they* intend, not *as* intended, if that makes sense. I was MFing this game and the people who made it as a result, and Caves of Qud was dangerously close to being shelved.

But I kept at it, sharing my water with folks, learning the local culture and slowly exploring with my mutant fella Nyroq (who is basically a Koopa Troopa with guns) until I slowed things down, listened to what people had to say, and before I knew it I felled the dastardly creature responsible for the crime of eating the watervine and laid its sorry carcass at the feet of Joppa's elder, gaining levels and mutations as I went.

What I'm trying to say is...it's finally clicking for me. I'm having a blast. And double points because I can actually, amazingly, play this with a controller (even Dwarf Fortress can't figure out how to pull that one off). I know I'm just getting started, but I get the sense that I'm gonna be doing this for a while, especially if my gaming sessions are gonna consist of doing one quest at a time. I hope this helps anyone who, like me, is/was ready to give up. What a great, strange and wonderful experience.

Just make sure to puff on any hookahs you see and you'll be happier for it.

[uHu]

Glad to hear that!
The "Koopa Troopa" is a Snapjaw? :D

Anyways ... I remember it took me some time to really get drawn into the game.
Back then there was only the permadeath (now "classic") mode and I got a bit frustrated, because the very first dungeon can be very hard, when you go there immediatly.

Visiting the Stilt for the first time sparked some new interest in me.
Suddenly the game became a lot bigger.

I wish you good luck on your journey.
Live and drink.

[BgDaddyDevil]

Originally posted by uHu:

I wish you good luck on your journey.

Yeah, about that...

I just ran into Evil Nyroq, and he just introduced me to the end of said journey. Very spectacularly, I might add.

Time to spin up a new game!

[buzzKiller]

Good to hear you haven't given up. I think you will be rewarded for it. When I first began playing, I didn't look up any outside material, preferring the 'pure' experience. I found that the world will (generally) teach you what you need to know. Which is to say, learning from your experiences.

[BgDaddyDevil]

Originally posted by buzzKiller:

Good to hear you haven't given up. I think you will be rewarded for it. When I first began playing, I didn't look up any outside material, preferring the 'pure' experience. I found that the world will (generally) teach you what you need to know. Which is to say, learning from your experiences.

I learn ten times more from my failures than my successes. And I'm doing a *lot* of learning. I've killed four more new characters since losing poor Nyroq -- more or less experimenting with new builds and such -- and finding out even more do's and don't's.

This game is damn fun! I intend to play more after I watch some sportsball.

[Mattrex]

What's Eating the Watervine? has been a notorious noob trap for years. The "problem", such as there is one, is that players accustomed to other RPGs assume that the first quest you're given when you arrive in town is one that you're expected to attempt and complete immediately, which - as you've surely discovered - simply isn't the case here.

It's a reasonable assumption. Most mainstream RPGs work on the premise that when you receive a quest, generally you will be at the rough power level necessary to approach it. Qud doesn't share this design philosophy.

Qud makes it clear that you aren't intended or expected to travel to Red Rock immediately upon receiving the quest - by killing you if you try. Many other quests in the game function similarly - there are more than a few you can pick up within the first few minutes of play that you have absolutely no chance of completing until much later. You'll generally fare better by feeling your own way through the game than trying to bumrush a specific location just because your journal tells you that you can go there.

[glass zebra]

Going towards Red Rock directly on the start is pretty much the expected thing to do both for difficulty and loot as a new character. There are a lot of fish on the way that can't really do anything against you and give free levels and the lots of Snapjaws in Red Rock give you equipment to fill up all your slots.

You can try to go into the canyons for Snapjaw loot too, but it is easy to get surrounded or lost there and you can meet stuff like tortoises and the somewhat rare Salthoppers, which are pretty brutal for a lot of low level characters. The worst thing that can happen is running into baboons around Red Rock itself, which can be pretty mean, but even then you can flee and let the goats kill them.

If there are no baboons around (which is pretty common), going to Red Rock as the first thing is not really a problem. Where else is the player supposed to go than to the area with lots of 3 HP level 1 creatures with useful loot?

[McFuzz]

Originally posted by DevilsGotAnRPG:

Originally posted by uHu:

I wish you good luck on your journey.

Yeah, about that...

I just ran into Evil Nyroq, and he just introduced me to the end of said journey. Very spectacularly, I might add.

Time to spin up a new game!

Evil twin is the most dangerous negative mutation by the way, as you no doubt just discovered. You shouldn't take it unless you have a very specific plan of how to defeat it when it shows up.

[McFuzz]

Originally posted by Mattrex:

What's Eating the Watervine? has been a notorious noob trap for years. The "problem", such as there is one, is that players accustomed to other RPGs assume that the first quest you're given when you arrive in town is one that you're expected to attempt and complete immediately, which - as you've surely discovered - simply isn't the case here.

It's a reasonable assumption. Most mainstream RPGs work on the premise that when you receive a quest, generally you will be at the rough power level necessary to approach it. Qud doesn't share this design philosophy.

Qud makes it clear that you aren't intended or expected to travel to Red Rock immediately upon receiving the quest - by killing you if you try. Many other quests in the game function similarly - there are more than a few you can pick up within the first few minutes of play that you have absolutely no chance of completing until much later. You'll generally fare better by feeling your own way through the game than trying to bumrush a specific location just because your journal tells you that you can go there.

What's Eating the Watervine? Is easy

Getting there and discovering a legendary disciple from the seeker of the sightless way with saltback thralls (which has actually happened to me) is hard.

While in theory Red Rock is suitable for level 1 characters, Qud does not respect the concept of a 'starter zone'.

[glass zebra]

Originally posted by McFuzz:

What's Eating the Watervine? Is easy

Getting there and discovering a legendary disciple from the seeker of the sightless way with saltback thralls (which has actually happened to me) is hard.

While in theory Red Rock is suitable for level 1 characters, Qud does not respect the concept of a 'starter zone'.

Was that a Pariah or really from the Seekers? Afaik they have made an effort to keep Red Rock as free of random generation specials as possible over time

[McFuzz]

Originally posted by glass zebra:

Originally posted by McFuzz:

What's Eating the Watervine? Is easy

Getting there and discovering a legendary disciple from the seeker of the sightless way with saltback thralls (which has actually happened to me) is hard.

While in theory Red Rock is suitable for level 1 characters, Qud does not respect the concept of a 'starter zone'.

Was that a Pariah or really from the Seekers? Afaik they have made an effort to keep Red Rock as free of random generation specials as possible over time

Full disclosure, it was in the waterclogged tunnel.

I always waterclogged tunnel my way back from Red Rock because it is stuffed with centipedes, crabs, and snapjaws that are usually a good source of early xp, except sometimes, very occasionally, oopsies, it's a legendary seeker and your brain explodes lol.

You might even find something very nice, and the guaranteed light source helmet, credit chip, pickaxe, and source of negative weight are absolutely fantastic to have at the start.

Sometimes I even use waterclogged tunnel to get there. It seems to have more protections than raw underground zones, but very occasionally lol jk here's a legendary putus templar.

[glass zebra]

Originally posted by McFuzz:

Originally posted by glass zebra:

Was that a Pariah or really from the Seekers? Afaik they have made an effort to keep Red Rock as free of random generation specials as possible over time

Full disclosure, it was in the waterclogged tunnel.

I always waterclogged tunnel my way back from Red Rock because it is stuffed with centipedes, crabs, and snapjaws that are usually a good source of early xp, except sometimes, very occasionally, oopsies, it's a legendary seeker and your brain explodes lol.

Sometimes I even use waterclogged tunnel to get there. It seems to have more protections than raw underground zones, but very occasionally lol jk here's a legendary putus templar.

Ah yeah the tunnels are not really save. You can find terrible things there or very amazing stuff. I once found a screen there with like 15 puddles of wine, which was pretty nice for level 6 or whatever I was there. The areas are also pretty open, so sudden ranged enemies can be very dangerous.

I usually also go there early on for that mid zone, especially if I value my hand slots.