Stilt Proselytized Merchant Re-location Question

[NC31]

Hello, salt-bathed.
Recently enjoying a playthrough where I was able to learn Proselytize from the Mechanimist pope, and had been using it to some success on merchants to swindle them.
My question is this: If I proselytize a merchant in a Stilt stall, have them follow me to a different tile (say, the one directly under the Stilt), tell them to stay there, then dismiss them, will they A) stay there on their own and/or B) restock their wares as usual despite being in the wrong tile?

[I blame Earthshaker]

Merchants (or at least dromad traders, but pretty sure this applies to any merchant regardless of type) retain the tier of the parasang/depth the merchant was generated from. So unless this code changed in the recent Moon Stair update, you can proselytize whoever you want, drag them to where ever you want, unfriend them, and that merchant will still restock as though they never left their original location. Nor should they move (although that might be more of a dromad trader thing, I guess they don't sleep?).

So doesn't matter where you get your first member of your polygel farm, deep jungle or 50 layers down, put 'em wherever you want! Always cracks me up when someone clones Tilly a bunch, so much easier to drag n drop dromad traders. They even come with guards!

[glass zebra]

There is some backpedal movement behaviour involved but I do not know the extend of it. I had merchants run back over screens to their original tile after being dragged for various reasons, but there seems to be a limit to that. I have dragged merchants very far from their original spot and they stayed there, but I have also dragged others away and they ran back to their old spot as well as they could.

[NC31]

Originally posted by glass zebra:

There is some backpedal movement behaviour involved but I do not know the extend of it. I had merchants run back over screens to their original tile after being dragged for various reasons, but there seems to be a limit to that. I have dragged merchants very far from their original spot and they stayed there, but I have also dragged others away and they ran back to their old spot as well as they could.

Interesting. Did you notice patterns with specific merchants from specific areas, or was it seemingly random?

Originally posted by I blame Earthshaker:

Merchants (or at least dromad traders, but pretty sure this applies to any merchant regardless of type) retain the tier of the parasang/depth the merchant was generated from. So unless this code changed in the recent Moon Stair update, you can proselytize whoever you want, drag them to where ever you want, unfriend them, and that merchant will still restock as though they never left their original location. Nor should they move (although that might be more of a dromad trader thing, I guess they don't sleep?).

So doesn't matter where you get your first member of your polygel farm, deep jungle or 50 layers down, put 'em wherever you want! Always cracks me up when someone clones Tilly a bunch, so much easier to drag n drop dromad traders. They even come with guards!

Thanks for the info. Additional question: Doesn't it make sense to clone Tilli given her tier 7 inventory? I don't think I've run across a dromad merchant that level (though I haven't braved the Moon Stair area recently). Do you find a deep underground dromad and drag him topside, or do you just get lucky in the deep jungle/baroque ruins/palladium reef areas?

[glass zebra]

Some people explore deep down, some follow the story. For the first it's easier to get high tier dromad merchants, for the others there is Tilli or the new one in the Moonstairs. You need neither.

[Dr.Desty Nova]

Originally posted by I blame Earthshaker:

(although that might be more of a dromad trader thing, I guess they don't sleep?).

Camel can sleep standing up. same as horse, flamingo, giraffe,...

You're welcome.

[I blame Earthshaker]

Originally posted by NC31:

Do you find a deep underground dromad and drag him topside, or do you just get lucky in the deep jungle/baroque ruins/palladium reef areas?

Yes

Originally posted by Dr.Desty Nova:

Camel can sleep standing up. same as horse, flamingo, giraffe,...

I mean, it's a video game, so it doesn't have to be that realistic, but you do realize that of the animals you listed, 3 out of 4 are quadrupeds, and birds are... kind of a unique case, evolutionarily speaking. Kinda easier to sleep standing up on four legs than two. Plus, some sharks sleep and swim at the same time by only resting half their brain at once, missed that one (whether this is the same for all the other animals you listed, I dunno and don't feel like looking it up).

Whole point of a Dromad is that they're a mutant camel person (which I assume originated from ♥♥♥♥ Sapien, not mutant camels; jury is still out regarding some sort of gene bomb or genetic engineering, but curious if finally getting to the top of the Spire will answer a bunch of questions like this). I was more referring to how the game has code for merchants to sleep, but dromad traders for some reason NEVER seem to sleep, prolly for gameplay reasons.

Edit: Hilarious, Steam is censoring H o m o when it is actually being used accurately and not as a pejorative for once!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NC31]

Alrighty boys, completely unrelated question but since you're Qud brainiacs I figured you'd know: For twinning and trining lampreys, do both/all three copies need to be astrally tethered for their replication to be blocked? I first went at them with normality gas grenades, but it seems as though I could never get all copies tethered at the same time, and killing one in the gas still caused it to respawn. I've moved on to freeze grenades, but I want to know if I was doing something wrong or am just braindead/incompetent.

[I blame Earthshaker]

Originally posted by NC31:

Alrighty boys, completely unrelated question but since you're Qud brainiacs I figured you'd know: For twinning and trining lampreys, do both/all three copies need to be astrally tethered for their replication to be blocked? I first went at them with normality gas grenades, but it seems as though I could never get all copies tethered at the same time, and killing one in the gas still caused it to respawn. I've moved on to freeze grenades, but I want to know if I was doing something wrong or am just braindead/incompetent.

Yes, those are a yuuuuge pain in the ass to deal with. I usually just skip 'em if possible, they're generally not hostile enough to really chase you. Grenades might cut it for the twinning, but get a normality gas pump for the trining version; this is because each version must be totally normalized (ie, tethered) to properly die, and if there is too little normality adjacent to any single version their twin/trine will respawn in an adjacent square. Also, make sure you're not relying too heavily on negative weight spheres, otherwise you're gonna have to drop a bunch of junk once you dive into the gas... or sit there encumbered, your choice,

You could also try using an ontological anchor, but I haven't really played around with those, so I would assume that you have to somehow stay adjacent to the living twin/trines until they're ALL dead. So prolly an even more complicated solution. Alternatively, you could just kill a fly with a cannon and use a phase conjugate Hand-E-Nuke (some phasing required)!

[CoiledLamb]

Originally posted by NC31:

Alrighty boys, completely unrelated question but since you're Qud brainiacs I figured you'd know: For twinning and trining lampreys, do both/all three copies need to be astrally tethered for their replication to be blocked? I first went at them with normality gas grenades, but it seems as though I could never get all copies tethered at the same time, and killing one in the gas still caused it to respawn. I've moved on to freeze grenades, but I want to know if I was doing something wrong or am just braindead/incompetent.

they have to be tethered to not respawn so it takes so much normality gas it's almost comical. you're much better off using freeze grenades imo

[gilrad]

RE Tilly vs deep dromads: Tilly is SUPER accessible, and 90% as useful as tier 8 merchants, that's the reason why everybody clones it. I suspect item drop tables are tied to world seed, and if that is so, it's possible to get a world where spiral drills and reprogrammable beacons are really hard or almost impossible to find. Delving to depths 40+ the hard way can be really dangerous if you're not quite ready for it, meanwhile cloning Tilly casually without grinding out full stacks of cloning liquid can get you the few extra high-tier items you need to confidently take the next step.

[I blame Earthshaker]

Originally posted by gilrad:

I suspect item drop tables are tied to world seed, and if that is so, it's possible to get a world where spiral drills and reprogrammable beacons are really hard or almost impossible to find. Delving to depths 40+ the hard way can be really dangerous if you're not quite ready for it, meanwhile cloning Tilly casually without grinding out full stacks of cloning liquid can get you the few extra high-tier items you need to confidently take the next step.

Unless more has changed with the Moon Stair update than I realized, item drop tables are only relevant to a parasang's tier level AND depth, not world seed (WAIT, see edit below). Plus, a player doesn't have to go down 40+ levels, 24ish is usually adequate (plus, lots of lava sub 40). Conveniently, Grit Gate is guaranteed to go down 20 levels at tier 2 (but will jump to more like tier 6 when a player hits the 21st floor). So which is easier? You decide!

And depending on your genotype, grinding out 64 oz of cloning draught is surprisingly easy. Even easier for True Kin, though I'll let you figure that trick out!

Edit: Actually, I misread the patch notes, it doesn't effect what data disks generate for a tinker merchant, only what falls out of the sky when you acquire the relevant Tinker skill level.

[glass zebra]

Originally posted by NC31:

Alrighty boys, completely unrelated question but since you're Qud brainiacs I figured you'd know: For twinning and trining lampreys, do both/all three copies need to be astrally tethered for their replication to be blocked? I first went at them with normality gas grenades, but it seems as though I could never get all copies tethered at the same time, and killing one in the gas still caused it to respawn. I've moved on to freeze grenades, but I want to know if I was doing something wrong or am just braindead/incompetent.

You don't need to afflict all of them to keep them from respawning. It's the surviving ones that simply replicate themselves until they reach the group cap again. If you are dealing with twinning ones, you can simply afflict one of them and kill the other. Works even better if you lower their hp first. If you got a follower or the sbariner you might as well skip the cc step and kill them both in the same round. Their HP and armour are fairly low.

Originally posted by I blame Earthshaker:

You could also try using an ontological anchor, but I haven't really played around with those, so I would assume that you have to somehow stay adjacent to the living twin/trines until they're ALL dead.

Anchor only anchors you and not the surroundings.
Edit: when worn it affects the surroundings. When on the floor it affects a 3x3 square.

[I blame Earthshaker]

Originally posted by glass zebra:

You don't need to afflict all of them to keep them from respawning. It's the surviving ones that simply replicate themselves until they reach the group cap again. If you are dealing with twinning ones, you can simply afflict one of them and kill the other. Works even better if you lower their hp first. If you got a follower or the sbariner you might as well skip the cc step and kill them both in the same round. Their HP and armour are fairly low.

I sit corrected, I thought you had to basically normalize the entire area around them. But then again, considering how gas dissipation works in this game, you basically have to anyways. Kinda surprised that freezing them works to prevent this, that sounds like a bug. Or maybe now it's an intentional bug...

Originally posted by glass zebra:

Originally posted by I blame Earthshaker:

You could also try using an ontological anchor, but I haven't really played around with those, so I would assume that you have to somehow stay adjacent to the living twin/trines until they're ALL dead.

Anchor only anchors you and not the surroundings.

Really? I thought it also anchored the immediate proximate surroundings of whoever has it equipped/powered/activated, not just the square the wearer's sprite was on. Wiki is kinda ambiguous about this when it says "in the vicinity of the wearer," but since it is also affected by the wearer's Glimmer score and health percent, I guess it basically only works on the wearer anyways. Like I said, haven't used them much...

Edit: I haven't tried this because it's would be really inconsistent, but I guess you could also try killing twinning and trining with an nulling eigenrifle if you can get lucky and line them up somehow...

[glass zebra]

Originally posted by I blame Earthshaker:

I sit corrected, I thought you had to basically normalize the entire area around them. But then again, considering how gas dissipation works in this game, you basically have to anyways. Kinda surprised that freezing them works to prevent this, that sounds like a bug. Or maybe now it's an intentional bug...

It's basically like an action they are doing. You can also stun them or any other thing that keeps them from doing an action. Killing works best here.

[I blame Earthshaker]

Originally posted by glass zebra:

It's basically like an action they are doing. You can also stun them or any other thing that keeps them from doing an action. Killing works best here.

Interesting, I had always thought it was automatic so long as one was alive, regardless of any status but normality. Guess if that had been so it would have made the game too hard!!!

But yeah, if a player can manage to kill all 2/3 simultaneously, it's a non-issue. But except for the few in Bethesda Susa, they can usually just be skipped by running away anyways. So if they generate as a legendary version, are all 2/3 legendary?