Ambidexterity and Jab

[Trantor]

Ambidexterity > 55% chance to attack with my offhand weapon
Jab > I make attacks twice as often with my offhand weapon if it's a short blade

So how do these interact with each other? I don't get a 110% hit chance since i only hit every 2nd or 3rd turn with my offhand dagger. EDIT: 110% attack chance, not hit chance.

[Ulrik]

It's not chance to hit, but chance to make an attack with the offhand. Do you get attempts to hit with both hands 100% of the time? You should.

[Trantor]

Yes thats what i meant, and no I don't even get "you miss" messages. Maybe you don't get those for your offhand weapons?

[davidb11]

Ambidexterity and Jab work perfectly together.
It's why you only need that rank in dual wielding if you're using short blades.

You literally will always swing with both weapons every time you swing.
Because 110% is greater than 100%, and 100% is obviously the most you can get. :)

As for the "You miss" message. I think they still apply to off-hand swings, but you get them grouped together.
So, if you ever see You miss twice in a row, that would mean you miss with both hands.
And if you're awesomely lucky enough to run a multiple arm mutant and find the powered Exoskeleton item, well, you now get to hit things with six weapons.

Ambidexterity and Jab do not work with more than 2 hands sadly.
But neither does anything else apparently. Like AV or DV on gloves. Or bonuses, or anything.

[Trantor]

Well, I'm probably missing something in the message log. Thanks for the answers.

[Laughing Fool]

110% gives you guaranteed attack with your offhand, and 10% chance for a second one.

[feliscon]

Originally posted by Laughing Fool:

110% gives you guaranteed two attacks with your offhand, and 10% chance for a third.

This, the dev confirmed in another thread like this a while ago.

All such bonuses stack, including multiple arms. For every 100% you get an extra attack, and the remainder is a chance for another one.

EDIT: Misread the quoted post, it should say one attack with offhand and 10% chance of a second...

[Laughing Fool]

Worded it poorly and included the guaranteed one mainhand attack for some reason, good catch.

[Ulrik]

Ok, I agree with you, the numbers don't seem to line up. I have a character that started with Ambidexterity (a Syzygyrior), and I unlocked short blades + jab too, and that should have 55% chance of another attack, and jab should double that. Yet many attacks are only with one hand.

[davidb11]

You literally broke something, because you should have a 110% chance to swing with both weapons.
Are you sure you're only seeing one attack in the log?
And only one attack registering while having dual-wielding?

Because I have never once had this happen where 110% failed to actually proc. Ever.
Statistically, it can't even happen, since something with greater than 100% to happen cannot fail. :)
I mean, it's guarenteed, you can't fail a guarentee without like dividing by zero. :)

Can you post a screenshot or something of the message log?
Even misses count as swings.

[Ulrik]

Sure, I made a new character and wished for xp to test it out.

There are 5 attacks in this log but only 3 attacks have the offhand participating. This is with all Dual Wield skills and Jab, so I'm guessing Jab and dual wielding does not stack.. that would be about consistent here?

http://imgur.com/a/YOy5E

[Ulrik]

Ok, if I switch the weapons around so that the dagger is in the primary hand and the long blade is in the secondary hand, I get two swings per attack even less often. So Jab seems to have its effect, but there's something we are missing.

[Laughing Fool]

try using two short blades

[davidb11]

Yeah, Jab really only shines with dual short blades.
That's why it's double chance works so well.
You need to dual-wield carbide daggers in order to see it shine that much.

[Ulrik]

Let's talk about hard facts.

Right hand: long sword. Left hand: dagger.

Doing 45 attacks with a new character.

Test 1

Skills: Long blade proficiency, Short blade expertise

45 attacks, 8 offhand attacks. ~= 18% which is consistent with the 15% proc rate


Test 2

Skills: Long blade proficiency, Short blade expertise, Jab

45 attacks, 18 offhand attacks. ~= 38%

Test 3

Skills: Long blade proficiency, Short blade expertise, Jab, Dual Wield, Offhand Strikes

45 attacks, 15 offhand attacks. ~= 33%

this suggests a hypothesis: Jab and Offhand Strikes skills do not stack. If you have more patience than me you could do the test with an even larger sample of attacks.

[davidb11]

Ulrick, you're the first and only person to claim it doesn't work. :)
Again, it works and is noticable with two carbide daggers. If you get 25 agility to max out the entire Dual-wield tree, you'll notice believe me. With short blades.

Stop using it with a longsword/shortsword combo.
Also, Long Blade Proficiency doesn't count for dual-wield anyhow. You can do that with two axes if you want to. Even without putting a point in the axe skill tree. Or two Cudgels. Hey, you can do cudgel/axe if you want.

But if you want to see Jab/Offhand attack actually work, you need and will always need without fail, dual carbide daggers to test.
Or rather any daggers/shortswords.

In fact, it is really easy to test this using the wish command.
So, please, Ulrick, why did you ingnore the advice given to you above the comment you have posted.