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1. Grenades.
2. The Force Wall mutation (used to trap him in one place.)
3. The Spinnerets mutation (similarly.)
4. The hearing mutation (this is bugged and won't work when he's in your LOS, but still works at long range.)
5. Counterattacks of any sort.
6. Clairvoyance + Teleport to bypass the entire fight. Or Phasing.
7. Mines.
8. Crippling or damage-over-time attacks (so you only need to hit him a few times.) You will have to lure him out of the healing water first, or use certain grenades to destroy it.
I just have to say all this. I've been playing this game for over 4 years, this is just not something the game needed. It seems like it's tedious to me.
This is Caves of Qud, a roguelike. IT is not La Mulana, it doesn't need puzzle bosses.
That belongs in a completely different genre of games than roguelikes.
I just don't understand how this mechanic even works in the game. It just boggles my mind.
It's too bizarre, even for this game.
Unfortunately it may also turn the freezer into an oven so you will have to grab the key and sprint to the exit while extinguishing yourself every other step.
I'd still call it a valid tactic thoug.
Actually that fits in just fine with the idea of roguelikes ie. die, learn, do better next time.
Down the Bethesda Susa's Cryobarrio I was just killed instantly from full health by a Juicing Cannibal that instant it appeared on view.
The whole dying thing doesn't bother me since I don't play by the standard rules of a roguelike. Debug mode to turn off permadeath in this game is probably the best damn option in this game.
And no, it's not an expected encounter, since it's the first time ever I entered Bethesda Susa in over 4 years. :)
So, hey, I'm sorry, but as someone who's played this game for over 4 years, the changes to Bethsda Susa really should not have been made if they're this silly.
A random invisible enemy when literally no other enemy in the entire game is invisible is the very defition of laziness. That is not defendable by anyone here except the developer of this game.
And if the developer of this game comes here and tells me that I'm the first person to complain in 4 years, that's fine, I'll concede the fact that this game is now more silly than say, a book of jokes. :)
Seriously though, I can live with this, but I do not like it.
DCSS, Nethack (Including the many variants), HyperRL/HydraRL, etc spring to mind.
I don't think Roguelikes are for you then. The point of a RL is to learn the mechanics. If you expect to beat it on your first run (you evidently killed him anyway on the first time) then clearly it's just not suited for you, since you do not wish to learn or rather complain about having to learn. Plenty of RL's give you enemies that are not combatable without knowledge or at the very least are incredibly difficult if not done properly, even worse they often have them spawn randomly which isn't the case in CoQ. It's part of the risk evaluation you have to keep in mind when you play games like this. Do I drink from this fountain? Do I make that wish? Do I pray? Do I read this unidentified scroll? While CoQ gives you the option to either go to Susa or you don't with full knowledge what awaits you there.
Except that the very original game that defined what a Roguelike is (Rogue) had an invisible enemy.
I've said I've been playing this game for 4 years. In what alternate universe does that mean I shouldn't play Roguelikes? Doesn't quite hold water, that statement you made.
Not to mention, your statement there also doesn't make sense, since no other roguelike has enemies like you suggest. Even the Banshee in ADOM only requires a bit of common sense to learn how to deal with her. :)
Hardly the same calibre as an enemy in this game that completely changes how you deal with it, unlike every other enemy in the game, bar none.
Slumberlings are easily killable with the right tools, even early on.
Otherwise, ignore them at all costs. I think that's common sense.
Is that what you mean? I apologize for my denseness.
I've been to Bethsda Susa before, before it was completely changed into a random boss rush mode. :)
Your complain about Rogue having an invisible enemy doesn't hold water here, since I'm talking about this game. Not Rogue. WTF does that even have to do with it.
THere is no other enemy in this game that is invisible.
So, please tell me why an enemy that's suddenly the only invisible enemy with no evidence anywhere in the entire game that it is like that, is somehow a good idea.
Don't attack a person just because I'm the first person ever to complain about something in this game. THat's rude, and insulting.
And there are no puzzle bosses in DCSS, Nethack, or anything else.
So, I don't know what you mean by that.
None of those games have enemies where you have to completely change all manner of tactics, to do something completely different to what you've done before.
And that's what that troll was.
Nothing in Nethack makes you completely abandon every single way of doing something, and forcing you to do one single different thing, always, every time. THat's what this boss does.
Why are we arguing about this? Really, it makes no sense to champion this descison. IT does not fit in with the rest of the game. Show me any evidence of how an invisible troll enemy makes sense at all. Chrome Pyramids are more logical. :)
I don't even know what a Chrome Pyramid is even supposed to be, but it makes more sense than a random Preadator gave it's cloaking device to a damn unintelligent troll inside a pit in the Bethesda Susa area. Show me a bit of the lore of this game where the Predators came down to give this random place cloaking technology.
I've been playing Roguelikes since before CAves of Qud was a dream in the eye of it's creator.
I've been playing Roguelikes since 1998. So do not tell me that Roguelikes are not for me.
I've played Omega the hardest Roguelike. That was fun!
I've played nearly every Angband varient. I've played ADOM. I've played Nethack and Slash'Em.
I've played IVAN, the Roguelike where you can't move more than 5 feet without some random enemy cutting off your arms. :)
No game is immune to criticism.
If the dev of this game comes here and tells me to calm down, and chill out, I will.
But I will not stand by and be insulted for pointing out that I feel as thought this is a terrible idea and does not even fit in with game lore.
I remember the old Bethsda Susa, I think I'm entitled to give the new one criticism for being 30 times harder. :P
You just don't introduce a random invisible enemy into a game where there have never been invisible enemies before, without someway of telling a new player that it's an actual thing.
Yes, Rogue does hold water here, because you were literally asking for examples and now you're backpedalling into some weird tantrum that I don't understand.
Nethack has the Demogorgon amongst other things.
DCSS has vaults that are deliberately designed to be solved like puzzles, including their sentinels to make bruteforce attempts harder.
It's not that the game is immune from criticism, it just seems childish that you're somehow changing your arguments on the fly as you please, about how no other game dares to do this when in fact the whole genre is buildt on the core principles I'm trying to tell you. I don't even understand why you're so mad and upset about me telling you that, you've made the argument that you don't like an invisibility mechanic and made your point to it and everyone acknowledges that you've done so.
Okay, I didn't know about Demogorgon, I don't know how he changes things.
The Vaults in DCSS are unique and fun, and yes challenging.
This troll fight is not like any of examples you've given me. Period.
I know I have Asperger's, and I know I get really obsessed over the games I play and enjoy.
You can't just claim that because Rogue had invisible enemies this game is allowed to add an invisible enemy when there have never been invisible enemies before.
THat is horrible logic. Rogue also has Balrogs, where are the Balrogs here? :P
I am not changing my arguments, please stop making things up.
I'm not complaining about relearning a mechanic.
Again, I said I'm been playing this for 4 years.
Not that I haven't played this in 4 years.
There is a huge difference between those two statements.
I simply don't see why you are going after me with religious zealotry for daring to complain.
If you are not actually attacking me, I apologize, but it sure as hell seems like it with every single thing you said so far without fail.
I'm very defensive, thanks to my Asperger's.
Again, if the Dev of this game shows up and tells me to shut up my facehole I will, but I think he's a bit friendlier than that. :)
I mean, really, an invisible enemy in this game does not fit in with the theme of the game, it does not fit in with the lore of the game, it does not fit in with any mechanics in the game.
It simply does not fit in, and has no reason to have been added.
Period.
Show me one good reason to add this enemy into a game, and I will concede my point. And admit I was wrong.
But I want a better reason than, "LOL so random." and "Adapt to mechanics in Roguelikes, you nub."
I want a reason that fits in with the lore of the game, or fits in with some of the themes of the game.
Becasue right now, an invisible enemy belongs in this game as much as a Chrome Pyramid does in real life. :)
I will totally admit I am wrong here. I acknowledge my mistakes you know. And I will.
Where did I do that? I've called you upset, because that's what you've said you are about it in your intitial post.
Optional boss that requires gimmicks to beat efficiently and not a typical bruteforce enemy, exactly how the boss in Susa is. Although you clearly beat him with bruteforce anyway.
Demogorgon is pretty spot on I find, aside from invisibility, but I suppose that's very subjective.
I'm not someone to make connections or a writer, but the world of CoQ has many high technology buried or distributed around. There's also a weird religious aspect.
"Haggabah, Who Plies The Umbral Path
The wraith troll, a shade of a shade, Haggabah is discernible only as a shadow that is somehow darker than the absence of light."
Considering that Bethesda Susa is a very ancient buried city/testing site/hidden laboritory/military research site, it might tie in with the technology aspect and the troll simply found himself in possession of something that would refract light.
It's Umbral magicks, who knows.
I never attacked you or did anything like that because you've got Aspergers.
I never did, or point me to where I said that. The only claims I've done is that roguelikes might not be your thing and if you're really sure about that.
This was your original quote;
"You just don't introduce a random invisible enemy into a game where there have never been invisible enemies before, without someway of telling a new player that it's an actual thing."
I simply gave you an example of how Rogue had one invisible enemy without someone ever telling you in the game that it is a thing.
I'm not making it up, I just gave you the quote of rogue and you argued that you never made that claim.
Oh yeah, that's my fault, didn't read it properly there. I thought you weren't playing this for a long time and the new changes seemed strange to you.
I'm sorry. I really am.
I just don't like this mechanic.
In time, I will get used to it.
I'm osrry for thinking you've been going after me.
I've very very defensive.
I don't mean to be, but it's how I am, and my Asperger's does not help, since it compounds any percieved slight.
I get extremely angry over sometimes the simpliest things.
I like this game, I enjoy this game a ton, this boss fight upset me.
I know it shouldn't have. It just seemed too weird and too out of the game for me.
I'm sorry. I really am not a giant dummy.
I'm more like a pacifist slumberling, even though that's a contridiction in terms.
I've edited the Bethesda Susa part, perhaps it might make more sense that way why the particular troll has invisibility.