So I used a love injector as a throwing weapon

[57E]

Got one love injector as early game loot in ruin few tiles from red rock.
Some time after that during a particulary hairy moment in the waterlogged tunnel, my two temporal clones decide that best course of action was to throw them at a bear who had chased me into a dead end tunnel.
Here's what happened:

> The flaming bear applies a love injector.
> The flaming bear falls in love with the flaming bear!
> The flaming bear applies a love injector.
> The flaming bear falls in love with the flaming bear!

So in the end, I was killed by narcissistic flaming bear.
Fun times.

[Axu]

You just can't make up some of the things that happen in the Caves of Qud.

[Axu]

After posting the above, I just realized that flaming bear is a porn category.

[MorganTheMad]

Throwing the injector won't apply it properly, you need to equip it in a hand, or use a dart gun. Throwing it dropped it in the bears square, the bear picked it up and used it, not knowing what it does. Applying it to yourself just makes you lovesick temporarily.

[Alugere]

Originally posted by Ghede:

Throwing the injector won't apply it properly, you need to equip it in a hand, or use a dart gun. Throwing it dropped it in the bears square, the bear picked it up and used it, not knowing what it does. Applying it to yourself just makes you lovesick temporarily.

Conversely, you can become lovesick by looking at the rarely spawned "farmer's daughter" at a farm location. While she doesn't normally do anything other than have a basic "she shies away from you yada yada yada" line in place of the normal dead end speach a farmer has and has nothing to trade, it can be amusing to bind her as a follower before gearing her up like a psycho to kill your enemies.

[davidb11]

Speaking of Farmers. I somehow aggrivated one just by tunneling through his field's walls with burrowing claws. Do they normally get mad at that? Because I did land in the middle of the field thanks to discovering the location and entering it directly.
Also, I think I could have left him alone for a few days, but I killed him instead. My bad.

[Alugere]

On one hand, yes, all peaceful pops will attack you if you dig through their walls. This is mostly for the same reason that you get arrested if you take a sledge to your real life neighbor's fence. Conversely, you don't get reputation penalties for killing farmers for the same reason you don't get penalties for killing basic snapjaws, the buggers are unnamed. Thus, murdering them and stealing all of their belongings is perfectly fine as long as you don't want to be able to sell or buy from them in the future.

[davidb11]

The thing is, it didn't use to be thatr way. And people in Joppa don't get angry if you accidentally tear a hole in a wall.
So, it doesn't make sense that farmers would suddenly gain anger towards you for making a simple mistake. I've literally held down the arrow keys to go across Joppa while forgetting I had Burrowing Claws, and tore through part of a building like it wasn't even there!
Those are flimsy houses after all. :)

You know, because it's impossible to stop from digging into walls via Burrowing claws, and being stuck in a situation where you have to tunnel through to get out should never make people hostile to you.
Especially since there are ways where it forces you to dig a hole through walls.

I know for a fact that this did not use to happen because I had to go through walls to talk to farmers before, and they've never been angry.

I don't feel it makes sense to base it even on real life, since it wasn't in any patch notes ever at all.

I feel as though a change this signficant and potentially game breaking should have been a major note in the changelogs, with bold text. :) Like, "YOU ARE HOSED IF YOU TUNNEL INTO ANY WALLS NEAR PEOPLE."

Also, this really shouldn't take any cues from real life at all. It's a video game. It's not realistic at all. My next door neighbor is not M. Bison. :) "OF COURSE!"

[Alugere]

I usually have Joppa farmers try and kill me for attacking houses and have for at least the past half dozen updates. I think it has to do with if they can see you, though. Similar to how they'll attack you if you loot a chest without remembering to close the door behind you to stop them from seeing.

Large chunks of Joppa are in the shadows at night, so they may not have seen you.

[davidb11]

The problem with that theory is, it really doesn't make sense at all for them to do that. Period.
Why does nothing else get hostile? Why only the watervine farmers?
For a simple mistake? Not to mention if you ever forget to close the door when looting the chests, everyone in joppa becomes hostile!

That really is a bad idea, and it needs to be removed until it can be fixed so it doesn't cause problems.

Seriously, anything that can cause catastrophic problems in a game should not be added to the game, especially with no indication at all that it is a thing.
That's what I have a problem with.

It makes Burrowing Claws a thousand times more dangerous than it needs to be.
Again, you can't stop burrowing Claws once you have it, so making the game hostile to you for hitting a wall is bad game design period.
This is not up for discussion or debate. You would have a higher chance convincing me that 2+2=5.

Seriously, I can't understand why Alphabeard would have added something this big into the game, and not even mentioned it once in any single changelog.
THat's just not how he's ever done it before.

I've played this game for a very long time, and while I haven't gone wandering around with Burrowing Claws that much until recently, the fact remains, anything that punishes you for an accident is a bad thing in a game like this with few exceptions.
Roguelikes by their very nature are difficult, but they are fair and balanced, Arbitrary difficulty, and royally shafting the player is agaisnt the rules set up even by the hardest Roguelikes.
Even Omega played fair for it's sadism, and only 2 or 3 people beat it since it was created in the late 80s.

So, if a game so hard that IVAN could only dream of becoming that difficult, :), had to play fair, so does Caves of Qud.
And IVAN is known for being the game where your limbs fall off way too easily for the game to be taken seriously as a Roguelike. :)

[Alugere]

Originally posted by davidb11:

Why does nothing else get hostile? Why only the watervine farmers?
For a simple mistake? Not to mention if you ever forget to close the door when looting the chests, everyone in joppa becomes hostile!

Just want to point out on this one that only the farmers who see you steal from the chest or fight other farmers become hostile. For my dual-wielding axe runs, I've found a good way to get good starting axes is to go loot the chest in the building near the dromad. If you do so from the lower right corner of the chest, two farmers can see you and will turn hostile. And this point, you can quickly duck out of the building and run to a nearby map while the hostile farmers follow. On the new map, you can kill the farmers, take the steel vinereapers, and then return to Joppa where everyone is still happy with you.

[davidb11]

That's weird. The last time I saw someone open any of the chests with any door open everyone in Joppa was hostile.

Again, none of these things were ever explained int he patch notes.

Seriously, I've never seen Alphabeard not even put into the changelog that he completely altered how something this big worked.

I don't understand this at all.
Especially how it makes no sense compared to my experience previously in the game.

I wouldn't even be that mad if he did include it in the changelog. But to add in something this big of a change, and not even say anything, it just confuses me, and when I get confused, I get upset and angry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry, but certain things set me off. And this is one of them. I do not react well to when things change completely for me in a way I can't understand reliably.

[Sentient_Toaster]

It's not terribly consistent. The folks in Grit Gate don't mind if you smash your way through the walls, for instance (at least, not once they let you past the force field).

[davidb11]

Fair enough there.
Again, sorry for freaking out.

[Luke]

Originally posted by davidb11:

Speaking of Farmers. I somehow aggrivated one just by tunneling through his field's walls with burrowing claws. Do they normally get mad at that? Because I did land in the middle of the field thanks to discovering the location and entering it directly.
Also, I think I could have left him alone for a few days, but I killed him instead. My bad.

This has been happening for a while. I think Joppa and Grit Gate are safe to knock down walls, but apple and pig farms I've always gotten into trouble for knocking down fences.

Often you have to, because of how they sometimes block the map. But any pigs, dogs, or farmers that see you knock down the fence will become upset until you leave the map and shake them off.

[davidb11]

Ah. I see. Well, it could be that I missed it in the change logs.
Good to know about it now though, at least.