The Axe Cudgel Long Blade Short Blade Question

[Patient]

Context:
CoQ is my first rogue like and I decided to play with load/save on, and permadeath off.
Not saying I won't try the default experience eventually!

Started as a Truekin Horticulturalist, have night vision implant, very even spread of attributes.

Been having a really hard time nailing down / getting inspiration on how exactly I want to 'play' my character. My guess is, normally this wouldn't be much of a problem if you play with permadeath (and/or like to roll random characters) because you have lots of opportunities to test and try out different builds.

My general idea for attributes long term was to focus on agility first, probably toughness or strength 2nd or 3rd, and maybe willpower 4th, intelligence 5th, and ego 6th. So not really planning on diving too too far into Persuasion, Self-Discipline, or Tinkering.

So far I definitely have had a preference for melee over ranged. And I didn't see myself delving into Shield or using two-handers. So I decided to go ahead and start specializing in Dual Wield.

I'm level 8 and I have yet to pick any Axe, Cudgel, Long Blade, or Short Blade skills/powers (although horticulturalist does start with Axe Proficiency.)

tl;dr

Permadeath disabled, Truekin, level 8, Str 20 Agl 20 Tou 19 Int 22 Wil 19 Ego 19
Prefer melee, prefer dual wield, but I can't for the life of me decide on Axe, Cudgel, Long Blade, or Short Blade.

Thoughts? Do you have a favourite? Low on inspiration

Many thanks for reading

[EternalEllipsis]

Short blades and cudgels are alright.

Long swords are really good because Lunge can disarm while in Dueling Stance which is amazing, though I build towards getting En Garde if I go that route. Also the best AV ignoring weapon is a longsword so it's nice to have the skill support available when you're up against something with 30+ AV.

Axes are great for what their abilities say on the tin can, dismemberment. Free debuffs, a chance to insta-kill, and literal disarming. There's no AV ignoring axe but has ways to deal with higher AV targets built in the skilltree.

[Faital Ryuu]

I'm sure some more power-players may be able to give you the nitty-gritty regarding the meta, but here's what you're looking at for what each melee weapon class can do.

Axe - STR-based, cleaves AV on critical hit, can Dismember. Very good for high-value enemies, not very good for crowd control. Synergizes with Charge.
Cudgel - STR-based, causes daze and stun. Overall very good weapon class with high STR, not a good weapon choice with lower STR. Synergizes with Charge.
Long Blade - Unique blend of attributes required to use Long Blades effectively. Very active ability heavy; hotkeys strongly recommended. One of two sources of weapon disarming. Very good for crowd-control. Crits do bonus damage, making it useful for high-value enemies also.
Short Blade - AGI-based, causes bleeding. Synergizes with Juke. Good for high-value enemies, poor choice for crowd control. Some skills work with off-hand shortblades.

If you plan on Dual-Wielding, pretty much every weapon except Long Blade will let you use some skills with that weapon wielded in the off-hand. If you acquire Helping Hands, the additional hands granted from that will not work with Dual Wield skills with the exception of Flurry. Short Blade is your best bet as your Off-hand weapon since it has the most skills that will trigger when you attack with an off-hand short blade, but Axes and Cudgels still have a couple passives each that will trigger. They aren't terribly useful early-game if you have moderate to low STR. If you plan to always have a Short Blade exclusively in your off-hand, learning the active abilities in the Short Blade skill tree is not recommended. Check the ability descriptions to verify that the skill doesn't need to be wielded in the primary hand to work.

[Faital Ryuu]

Originally posted by EternalEllipsis:

Long swords are really good because Lunge can disarm while in Dueling Stance which is amazing

I think you meant Swipe, not Lunge.

Originally posted by EternalEllipsis:

Also the best AV ignoring weapon is a longsword so it's nice to have the skill support available when you're up against something with 30+ AV.

Does Long Blade crit damage ignore armor? I haven't played long blades enough to see what makes them ignore AV.

[ephemeraltoast]

Above info is pretty thorough but keep in mind that unless you plan to massively cheese a certain XP method at the Stilt you're not gonna end the game much above level 30. That means that you only have about 5-6 discretionary attribute points to distribute and you've already gotten one. You get to focus on one or maybe two attributes, but definitely not 6.

Your stat spread right now is certainly survivable but it's so even that you'll be very late in the game before you can hope to get any of the "ultimate" abilities that appear at STR or AGI 29, and your STR right now is pretty low. Low STR means you will have trouble penetrating armor with any weapon unless you have a way around it like Cleave or bleeds/dismembers. So axe and/or shortblades, IMO.

Also, allow me to evangelize for Tinkering, since INT is your highest stat right now anyway. It's good. It relies some on luck to find useful data disks but it will help you a lot to have ready grenades and modded up weapons for the enemies whose armor is a challenge for your noodle arms.

Originally posted by Faital Ryuu:

Does Long Blade crit damage ignore armor? I haven't played long blades enough to see what makes them ignore AV.

I think they are referring to the vibrokhopesh. But I've made great use of that thing without a single point in Long Blades. Since it's a situational weapon and not the best in every encounter (and incredibly hard to get anyway) I don't feel the need to build around it but YMMV.

[EternalEllipsis]

Originally posted by Faital Ryuu:

Originally posted by EternalEllipsis:

Long swords are really good because Lunge can disarm while in Dueling Stance which is amazing

I think you meant Swipe, not Lunge.

Originally posted by EternalEllipsis:

Also the best AV ignoring weapon is a longsword so it's nice to have the skill support available when you're up against something with 30+ AV.

Does Long Blade crit damage ignore armor? I haven't played long blades enough to see what makes them ignore AV.

Yeah, I meant to say swipe.
It doesn't ignore AV on crit, it does bonus crit damage.

There's a guaranteed Ceremonial Vibrokhopesh in Bethesda Susa which is how you'd go about ignoring AV as a longsword user but anyone can use it regardless of your investment in the longsword skill tree. I only bother going that route for their ability to spam disarms, which is how to beat my first chrome pyramid, it's really powerful but other then that I find longsword to be pretty meh.

[Patient]

Awesome thanks everyone!
@ephemeraltoast oh jegus haha I'm sensing a new character in my future. By the sounds of it I'll play around with short blades and tinkering on my current character and see how they feel, then maybe start a new character for the long haul.

[MayoCulpa]

So I've had the game for a couple months, and settled on an agile short blade / tinker build as a playstyle I really like. And fwiw the Bow & Rifle skill Suppressive Fire synergizes with it really, really well, particularly for powerful enemies. I think I've got Juke (with Bloodletter and Pointed Circle once I can afford them!), Hobble, Jump, Suppressive Fire permanently loaded in my hands' muscle memory lol.

In crowd control situations, short blades with Juke / Jump are good for getting a bit stabby and then running far enough away to start spamming grenades or area effect damage mutations.

I keep wanting to get twin chain pistols and Akimbo just for the sheer cool factor but can never manage to sink the skill points in to make it happen.

[Patient]

@MayoCulpa oh sweet, I was also thinking Bow & Rifle rather than Pistols, so this is good to know. Might come to you if I have any short blade and tinker questions if thats cool!

[MayoCulpa]

If I know a thing I will be glad to share it, although I definitely still have a lot to learn myself! :D

[justingerk]

There is some great advice above, but here is my recommendation.
Do not settle for 1. Choose a mix.
I often have longblade, dueling stance, and swipe combined with axe, cleave, and dismember.
These are so useful.

Then if there's time and I'm still alive, I go for these later on.
Shortblade and jab
Cudgel and bludgeon.


--- Yeah, you give up skills to diversify but now you can load your guy up with each mutated & robotic arm and do it all. I still have to swap my primary weapon with axe/sword so I can disarm and then decapitate.
-- Any build can benefit and be fun with this. You do not need to fully invest in a skill tree.

[Patient]

@justingerk really good point!

[Peregrin Took]

Originally posted by Faital Ryuu:

I'm sure some more power-players may be able to give you the nitty-gritty regarding the meta, but here's what you're looking at for what each melee weapon class can do............

As a returning player to Qud this was an awesome breakdown! Thanks.