What if I don't pick a mutation type?

[affairs most succubussian]

like Chimera or Esper? Can I still pick both types of mutations for my character? What's the drawback?

[Bwixie]

chimera: only manifast physical mutations when you buy a random one for 4 mp.
esper: same but only mental mutations.
genome: 33% chance per level to be able to pick 1 of 3 random mutations, repeatable.

you cant pick esper and chimera together, you can pick genome with either or none.

[affairs most succubussian]

ah, thanks for clearing that up.

[Avloren]

If you don't get Chimera or Esper, the drawback is less control over your random mutations that you can get when you level up. Mental and Physical mutations tend to rely on different attributes, and lend themselves to two different playstyles, so you usually prefer one or the other.

More specifically: you get a mutation point every level. You can spend 4 points to get a new mutation, this lets you pick from 3 random mutations out of all the ones your character is allowed to have. Chimera or Esper let you limit that pool of available mutations to ones that fit your build better, raising your chances of getting choices that are actually useful.

So if you initially pick mental mutations, and focus on raising wisdom/ego so you can play as a sort of ranged caster, you want to take Esper so that your random mutation choices aren't full of physical mutations that don't work with your build. Vice versa for physical mutants raising strength/agility and taking Chimera.

You could take neither, which frees you to start with some OP combination of mental and physical mutations (some of them DO work well together, it's just that most don't). But then you raise your risk of getting some weird random mutation choices that just don't work with your build as you level up.

Unstable Genome is unrelated, it lets any mutant spend 3 points for an extra random mutation after a few levels. It's like a gamble, hoping to get a good mutation that costs more than 3.

[Aquillion]

Also, note that there is really no reason to ever take Chimera. Most mental mutations are still reasonably useful even with terrible Ego and Willpower, and on the whole the physical mutations are just individually a lot worse than mental ones.

There are exceptions, yeah, but overall most physical mutations are bad.

[affairs most succubussian]

Originally posted by Aquillion:

Also, note that there is really no reason to ever take Chimera. Most mental mutations are still reasonably useful even with terrible Ego and Willpower, and on the whole the physical mutations are just individually a lot worse than mental ones.

There are exceptions, yeah, but overall most physical mutations are bad.

disagree, i'm playing a duel-wielder with axes with adrenal control and an extra pair of arms, making him incredibly powerful.

[Aquillion]

Originally posted by The Warlock VDS𝟺𝟻:

Originally posted by Aquillion:

Also, note that there is really no reason to ever take Chimera. Most mental mutations are still reasonably useful even with terrible Ego and Willpower, and on the whole the physical mutations are just individually a lot worse than mental ones.

There are exceptions, yeah, but overall most physical mutations are bad.

disagree, i'm playing a duel-wielder with axes with adrenal control and an extra pair of arms, making him incredibly powerful.

What I mean is, the Chimera genotype is bad, because the average power level of physical mutations is low. Yes, there are some good physical mutations, but overall there's no benefit to making it so you can only learn physical mutations.

(The other issue is that physical mutants learn fewer new mutations in general because they need to spend their mutation points leveling up the mutations they already have, which makes the Chimera genotype even less useful.)

I mean, I'll bet your axe-guy wasn't actually a Chimera... was he? It'd just be a waste of a point.

[affairs most succubussian]

yeah now that I think about it, I kind of wasted a point. oh well

[Fridge]

Originally posted by Aquillion:

Also, note that there is really no reason to ever take Chimera. Most mental mutations are still reasonably useful even with terrible Ego and Willpower, and on the whole the physical mutations are just individually a lot worse than mental ones.

There are exceptions, yeah, but overall most physical mutations are bad.

Multiple arms, multiple legs, double-muscled, triple-jointed, regeneration, and sleep gas generation and I'm a force to be reckoned with. I wouldn't have gotten half of these if I didn't choose chimera. If I wanted to effectively use mental mutations, I would have had to take points away from my physical stats and allocate them to ego.

[affairs most succubussian]

Originally posted by Fridge ✅:

Originally posted by Aquillion:

Also, note that there is really no reason to ever take Chimera. Most mental mutations are still reasonably useful even with terrible Ego and Willpower, and on the whole the physical mutations are just individually a lot worse than mental ones.

There are exceptions, yeah, but overall most physical mutations are bad.

Multiple arms, multiple legs, double-muscled, triple-jointed, regeneration, and sleep gas generation and I'm a force to be reckoned with. I wouldn't have gotten half of these if I didn't choose chimera. If I wanted to effectively use mental mutations, I would have had to take points away from my physical stats and allocate them to ego.

what he's saying is Chimera only affects your level up mutations. but you'd probably be leveling up all your pysical mutations to keep up anyway so you sohuldn't buy new mutations by then so, what's the point?

[Aquillion]

Yes. If you're learning all those mutations, they're all at one point (and there's a lot of mental mutations that are very useful with just one point, like Force Wall, Force Bubble, Temporal Fugue, Burgeoning, etc.) You'd be better off dumping one or more out of Regeneration, Triple-Jointed, and Double-Muscled and just leveling up Multiple Arms and Multiple Legs, at which point your Chimera genotype isn't doing anything because you're not learning new mutations.

(Regeneration in particular I still feel is a trap. Even at max level the health regen is far too low to help you against the most dangerous enemies, and while regenerating limbs is nice, it's not worth devoting an entire mutation to.)

[Fridge]

Originally posted by Aquillion:

Yes. If you're learning all those mutations, they're all at one point (and there's a lot of mental mutations that are very useful with just one point, like Force Wall, Force Bubble, Temporal Fugue, Burgeoning, etc.) You'd be better off dumping one or more out of Regeneration, Triple-Jointed, and Double-Muscled and just leveling up Multiple Arms and Multiple Legs, at which point your Chimera genotype isn't doing anything because you're not learning new mutations.

(Regeneration in particular I still feel is a trap. Even at max level the health regen is far too low to help you against the most dangerous enemies, and while regenerating limbs is nice, it's not worth devoting an entire mutation to.)

That would be a huge waste of mutation points. I have a shield and a very weak dagger (that grants me temporal fugue) equipped in my extra hand slots, so increasing offhand strke chance would do next to nothing. I've put a few mutation points into my multiple legs, but combined with the footwear I have equipped my movespeed is very high (160). My carry capacity is also unnescicarily high (600+). Regeneration is helpful coupled with my movespeed and sleep gas. Since I can easily flee from almost all enemies, I can run away from combat when I'm injured, quickly heal, then come back to the fight while the enemy is still weakened. Having a few extra points of strength and agility can also make a difference in combat, and the added bonus of occasionally dazing and dodging attacks is nice.

If I hadn't chosen chimera, my random mutation rolls would've been cluttered with mental mutations that wouldn't provide much of an advantage for a physical attacker. For a single mutation point, chimera is much more beneficial then something like kindle or night vision.

[Swirler]

Originally posted by Fridge ✅:

Originally posted by Aquillion:

Yes. If you're learning all those mutations, they're all at one point (and there's a lot of mental mutations that are very useful with just one point, like Force Wall, Force Bubble, Temporal Fugue, Burgeoning, etc.) You'd be better off dumping one or more out of Regeneration, Triple-Jointed, and Double-Muscled and just leveling up Multiple Arms and Multiple Legs, at which point your Chimera genotype isn't doing anything because you're not learning new mutations.

(Regeneration in particular I still feel is a trap. Even at max level the health regen is far too low to help you against the most dangerous enemies, and while regenerating limbs is nice, it's not worth devoting an entire mutation to.)

That would be a huge waste of mutation points. I have a shield and a very weak dagger (that grants me temporal fugue) equipped in my extra hand slots, so increasing offhand strke chance would do next to nothing. I've put a few mutation points into my multiple legs, but combined with the footwear I have equipped my movespeed is very high (160). My carry capacity is also unnescicarily high (600+). Regeneration is helpful coupled with my movespeed and sleep gas. Since I can easily flee from almost all enemies, I can run away from combat when I'm injured, quickly heal, then come back to the fight while the enemy is still weakened. Having a few extra points of strength and agility can also make a difference in combat, and the added bonus of occasionally dazing and dodging attacks is nice.

If I hadn't chosen chimera, my random mutation rolls would've been cluttered with mental mutations that wouldn't provide much of an advantage for a physical attacker. For a single mutation point, chimera is much more beneficial then something like kindle or night vision.

As a new player I would like to hear more about Chimera gameplay and how it differs from Esper.