Caves of Qud

Caves of Qud

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Anxarcule Apr 30, 2017 @ 8:51am
My latest very fun physical mutant build
BBLUKNEIBNBOB2CBDY

After playing with an Esper (using the amazing guide) and learning how to destroy everything in my path, I thought I'd try my luck with a physical/melee character so I would be able to use all the cool weapons found throughout the game. The build is based around focusing on a high DV, high to-hit chance and killing everything before they have a chance to hit you (much). This build will also give the max # of open equipment slots possible.

Attributes

Mutants stat with a 10 of each stat and 44 points to distribute, and every 5 levels gain +1 to all their stats. While we are going to pump Agility high, it's important to have a well rounded character as well - past 18 additional points the cost increases to 2, so we need to utilize our points efficiently. The additional attribute points we gain from leveling will go almost exclusively to Agility (I added one point to Intelligence to make Masterful Butchery available early on and Tinkering II later down the line).

Strength - increased to 18 (this will be 17 in the final screen due to mutations). We will be losing strength points from one of our mutations and this will also affect weapon penetration + base carrying capacity. It's important not to gimp this stat as a high carrying capacity = more loot to sell = more dram per run.
Agility - increased to 22 (final score will be 26 after class/mutations)
Toughness - increased to 16. We need to be able to absorb some damage, especially since our AV won't be as high.
Intelligence - increased to 19. Important for the tinkering skill tree as well as overall skill points.
Willpower - no points invested. If you can somehow befriend the sightless way faction you are golden.
Ego - increased to 14. To get somewhat decent prices



Mutations to take:

  • Multiple legs - an expensive mutation at 5 points, but each level gives a generous increase to movement speed as well as increased carrying capacity. Aside from this, you also get an extra pair of feet - while DV/AV doesn't carry over from the second set of feet any +MS bonuses do, so you can wear two pairs of bounding boots for +30 MS (add spring loaded to both for an additional +10). Once you hit level 10 with this mutation (top priority) nothing will be able to catch you.
  • Multiple arms - cost of 4 mutation points, but since we are focusing on dual wielding, 2 arms good, 4 arms better! You might argue that you can simply wait for later in the game to acquire a set of helping hands, but we will be focusing on short blades and the Jab skill allows you to make offhand attacks twice as much which applies to organic hands but not technological. Aside from wielding 4 weapons, we also now have 2 additional arm slots and free up the back slot that would be used up by helping hands. Each level invested in this skill increased the chance for attacking with the additional arms - I haven't been investing as many mutation points here as the returns aren't that impressive, but when I have free points I do.
  • Amphibious - returns 3 points to you with the drawback of having increased water consumption. Depending on play style I suppose you can take ravenous but water weighs less and in general is more easily accessible than food.
  • Triple-jointed - Increases Agility at the expense of Strength, as well as giving an additional dodge check. I level this one up sporadically as the strength penalty can be somewhat severe, but this is why it's important to invest in strength at character creation. Try and get this to level 4 ASAP as it gives the best agility/dodge bonus while remaining at -1 strength. It's good to time investing every 5 levels where you gain +1 to strength so you offset the additional -1 strength loss, thus always remaining at a decent strength level
  • Any 2 point skill - I chose teleport other in case I need to teleport a vicious enemy away, but have yet to use it in 20 levels. In retrospect I would have chosen Clairvoyance or Ego Projection - even though your Ego is quite low you will eventually have many mutant points that you can use to level these. Ego Projection might be a better choice as it would shine late game if you could get +Ego items (as well as the mutant's natural ego increase every 5 levels) to boost agility, strength, or toughness as needed.

Calling/Class
Arconaut - Good for the +2 agility (which would cost you 4 points at character creation) and class skills. Every skill is useful (aside from scavenger maybe) as we will be focusing on short blades and eventually getting Tinkering II.

Final Stats:
Str 17
Agi 26
To - 16
Int - 19
Wi - 10
Ego - 14



Overall strategy:
While there is probably a more optimal way to do this, this did work pretty well for me and I'm currently level 22 in my initial play through with this build (no restarts or deaths).

Initially I saved my points to open the dual wield tree (300sp), after which I saw I was running out of food quickly, so I opted for butchery, and went directly for masterful butchery (no need to get advanced butchery). This will give you great food and items to sell, which you should be able to carry if you are leveling multiple legs.

Because you have a high DV, enemies will be missing quite a lot, so Rejoinder in the Short blades tree is incredible (once per round counterstrike when an enemy misses you). After you have these I would focus on leveling up the remaining dual wield skills as they significantly increase the chances of making attacks with your off-hand(s), after which get the short blade skills that look interesting. You can get tinkering I at some point if you manage to find a good data disk (e.g. adding sharp to all of your daggers).

Eventually plan on getting Tumble for the +1 DV bonus, as well as optionally Block to throw a buckler in one of your arms to further reduce damage, although not much will be able to do damage to you... and if they are you can outrun them even without sprinting.

There will be some mobs which you are better off not meleeing in the early game, but luckily with the high agility you are also quite accurate with guns/bows. If you find yourself using guns a lot it may be wise to deviate and invest in the Bows and Rifles tree (at the very least the initial steady hands skill). I myself used a shotgun initially on rare occasion, and picked up a chaingun for dealing with the more difficult turrets and certain horned bosses, as well as softening up more difficult targets.

Overall, this to me is a much more fun build to play than a pure Esper, which to me became somewhat repetitive. Even relatively early I was able to melee Very Tough enemies, and slumberlings are no longer as scary as they once were. I'll report back after I take on the Sky Bear :)









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Showing 1-11 of 11 comments
Avloren Apr 30, 2017 @ 7:47pm 
I've also been trying physical builds recently, I got tired of being a god Esper as well. We're using similar builds, although there are a couple things on yours I'd change; below is some (hopefully) construction criticism based on my experience. You should definitely skip this post if, like me, the experimenting to find the perfect build is the fun part for you.

Tl;DR: I'd highly recommend at least 18 toughness and max agi. 14 ego and multiple arms are decent choices, but I've come to believe there are better options. I think 19+ int and masterful butchering are not worthwhile, unless you personally enjoy tinkering II+.

In my last couple runs I've settled on 18/24/18/16/10/12 before caste/mutations. Then arconaut, triple-jointed, and all level up points into agi.

Rationale: prepare yourself for a wall of text, many Arconauts died to bring us this information.

Stats

Strength: On the one hand, eventually you'll get gaslight/vibro weapons which don't use strength at all. They do better against most enemies than strength-based weapons, unless you maximize strength (which agi/DV builds just don't have the points to do). On the other hand, surviving as a melee with low strength 'til you find a gaslight/vibro weapon is a horrible experience. I've tried going with 14 or less strength starts, it could theoretically lead to a stronger build at level 20+, but I think you got it right: everything goes so much smoother starting with 18 strength, maybe 16 at the lowest.

Agility: the thing that's going to contribute the most to surviving vs. getting splatted because a high penetration hit gets through DV, and it gets better the more of it you have. I'm not saying you can't get by with 20 or 22 agi, but I think that agi is better than any other attribute you could get instead. I start with 24 and get more wherever possible.

Toughness: is almost as good as agi. No matter how you defend yourself (AV or DV or being nowhere near the enemy aka being an Esper), hits will occasionally get through. Health is the only thing you can always rely on; like agi/DV it's literally life or death. I take it to 18 on every character, and I'd even be tempted to go 19+ if I could spare the points elsewhere (if I could survive a 10 strength start, I'd probably put those points into +4 toughness).

I lost my best Arconaut at level 30ish because I did something risky, got very unlucky with DV, and came up about 20 hit points shy of surviving a massive 1-hit kill (evidently hitting a beetle can aggro a Salt Kraken somehow). I can't help thinking that if I had taken two-hearted that run, or a more difficult start with lower strength and more toughness, Avloren XXXVII would still be alive today.

Int: I wouldn't ever get the 19th point at double cost, or spend any optional attributes on it when leveling. Anything in the 16-18 range is good. The reasoning is tricky, I've experimented with everything from 12 to 20 int, so here goes:

More int unlocks Tinkering I sooner - but I find I don't have many useful mods until around level 12-18. So I like starting with 16 int (unlocks tinkering at level 18), although it wouldn't hurt to have 17-18 (unlock at level 6-12). Below 16 int is rough (level 24+ for tinkering), and over 18 int doesn't really help here, you won't have the parts or recipes to do much with it at level 1.

More int is also more skill points, but not that many more. Each point of int is 4 skill per level (retroactive). That's 76 skill points by level 20, 116 by 30. I find 16 int will get you the important skills by mid 20's. Getting +2 int pushes that timetable ahead by about 1 or 2 levels. Which is not bad, but I slightly prefer other attributes. Then again my skill choices are very focused, if you want to branch out into some secondary stuff (say, ranged skills) you would value int more.

There are some other skills unlocked by int, but none that I find are really important. Tinkering I is crucial (mods, grenades, recharging), but tinkering II-III only unlock items that you can literally find laying on the ground if you venture deep enough. It's a playstyle thing though, if you enjoy tinkering then go for it - it just doesn't seem practical to me. Masterful butchering is nice for a few unique items, like the thing from Slog or void glands, but otherwise it just gives you equipment that (again) you can find same or better laying on the ground.

I actually tried a build with 10 int and the tinker caste (free tinkering I, so you never need to hit 19 int). It costs you 2 agi from arconaut while freeing up 6-8 attributes to spend elsewhere, but I found the low int reduced skill points too much.

Willpower: yeah, you don't need this at all. It's nice for mental mutants, but for physical there are very few attacks it defends against. Having a few extra points doesn't do much against confusion, and sunder is survivable if you have enough health to soak it up and kill seekers before they use it again.

Ego: I'd like to start with 14-16 ego, but the points for other attributes have to come from somewhere. Practically speaking, I've found that 12 is just enough. You really want at least 14 ego before you do much trading, and if you start with 12 ego you can have 14 by level 6 with a knollworm skull.


Mutations

Negative mutations:

I like getting a 4-point negative, to afford 4x 4-point positive mutations. Hemophilia is the least-bad of them: you have to avoid young ivories (so no underground or canyons) until you have staunch wounds and some bandages, but after that it's little trouble at all. If you're not aiming for 16 starting mutation points, then it frees up some less harmful negatives (like amphibious, which is a solid choice).

Good mutations:

I agree with most of your choices. Triple-jointed is must-have, for the same reasons agi is important. Also something to escape bad situations:
  • If I could spare 5 points, I'd probably go with teleportation, but multiple legs works too.
  • Force wall is probably the best even for a physical mutant with no ego, but I've used it too much with esper, I prefer to try new things.
  • Phasing can be very good, but its usefulness depends so much on the terrain. I like it, but I wouldn't make it my only movement/escape tool.
  • Heightened Speed: quickness is great. Faster melee attacks, better kiting with ranged attacks, better escape when you just can't win. You can get +10 quickness for -1 toughness, which is a good trade; raising it to +15 quickness for -2 toughness is a little dubious, I leave it at +10 for most of the game.
  • Adrenal Control: +5 quickness all the time with no drawback (so you can get a passive +15-20 quickness combined with heightened speed, this is huge). Then the activated ability for much more quickness in short bursts when you need to escape something deadly. The ability is a poor risk at level 1, but it gets much better as you level it (both more reliable and more powerful). It never gets safe enough I'd want to engage it casually, I save it for difficult situations.

I wanted to like multiple arms, thematically it fits so well, but the proc rate always seemed underwhelming when I tried it. Not sure if it benefits from any of the dual wielding skills (I should test this). If it does it could be very good at high levels. But I'd still prefer something that helps me stay alive or fight at range; I don't find that killing things fast in melee is really a problem without it.

I also like two-hearted and double muscled, but the cost/benefit of the passive stats just isn't quite up there with other mutations. The triggered effects are good, but they trigger too rarely.

I love flaming/freezing hands, but they cost 5 points and the hand slot (that's -3 DV compared to six-fingered elastyne gloves). I'd probably still get one of these if I could spare that 5th mutation point.

Forgot to add: my last build was something like hemophilia, triple-jointed (to 8ish), heightened speed (to 3), adrenal control (to 8ish), and phasing (to 4ish). I think, anyway. Sadly he met his fate against a pair of rocket turrets in a historical site.
Last edited by Avloren; Apr 30, 2017 @ 9:52pm
Pitterpatter May 1, 2017 @ 6:36am 
I would suggest Two-heads for the 2-point mutation, gives you another face slot, or two more if you can get the two-faced mod, I currently have a two-faced miners helmet on my second head. As an added bonus you can play as a pair of siamese twins. 18 TOU is probably the way to go, you can't dodge everything.
Anxarcule May 1, 2017 @ 8:54am 
Thanks for the feedback! This was my first attempt at a physical build and it went pretty well on a first attempt. I think your points are 100% valid - increasing Int to 19 should have been better spent on To, as I can definitely see the drawbacks to starting with 16 To now that I've ventured into the Deathlands. I did manage to take out a clone of the Sky-Bear but only by kiting him with the chain gun, not straight up melee. Food is usually somewhat of an issue for me as I do a lot of overland travel, so going without master butchery may be difficult

Interesting about utlilizing the -4 from hemphilia - having 3 additional points instead of 2 opens up a ton of options - I also would have chosen Force Wall for utility, but I'll try this next time and see what else is available. Heightened speed seemed like too much of an investment for not much return (I also would not have raised it past the -1 To loss).

Two-Headed might be good for roleplaying a mutant with extra body parts, as well as trying to hug madpoles for extra faces (without losing your head) - getting +6 Ego could be nice if you could get two faces.

Syphon Vim could be good, but it would need to be leveled to be of any real use, but could incresae survivability.

Maybe I'll play around with potentially losing Multiple Legs for Heightened Speed + Time Dilation - that seems like it could be a killer mutation to have at high levels.
Pitterpatter May 1, 2017 @ 9:19am 
Up to +12 ego for two headed with two faced headgear. I've been trying to make a physical/mental hybrid, relying heavily on ego boosting gear. Right now I have 3 +2 ego faces and a +3 leering stalker face (+9 total), a chrome mantle (+1), knollworm skull (+1), stopsvallin (+1), and the isnar pistol in the thrown slot (+1), for a total of +13 ego. Started with 18 and haven't invested further and am using level 10 mental mutations now, time dilation works well. I've been more focused on strength, for shields and axes. Shield bash seems to bypass armor and can even hit phased enemies somehow. For really dodgy enemies I have sunder mind, light manipulation from a buckler I found, and staggering block helps (same laser shield gives +25% block).

You should also know that if you take sleep gas generation, you will not fall asleep after becoming exhausted through adrenaline control. You won't fall asleep from narcolepsy either. These are arguably exploits but the adrenal control one doesn't seem too unfair for the 2MP cost, you still lose the quickness boost, you just avoid getting hit once and dazed basically.
Luke May 1, 2017 @ 9:21am 
I've been playing BBLWMMEEBNBPBQB2CKDN with huge success.

It is a similar 4-armed Agi build, and I've been focusing on the shortblade+longblade combo for defensive stance and maximal DV. I got to the Bethesda Susa part of the quest easily, but took a side-trip to a legendary ruin and was killed by a chaingun cult.

All the cult members were girthworms, chromelings, and chainguns. The chainguns wrecked me, I should have just left.

I think I would have had no problem finishing the curent main quest line with this guy, otherwise.

Next time, STR build. Haven't done one in ages.
Anxarcule May 1, 2017 @ 11:40pm 
Started a new STR/Axe build yesterday that is doing great. Similarly based around multiple arms/legs/heads. Ego is low to begin with, but that is quickly alleviated with dismembering faces and getting two-faced helmets. Currently I have +7 Ego (3 +2 Slumberling faces, +1 from knollworm helm).

BEUMLMEEBKBNBOB3CB

Last edited by Anxarcule; May 1, 2017 @ 11:41pm
Anxarcule May 2, 2017 @ 11:01pm 
Ok this axe build is nutty, I daresay even more powerful than my esper - Berserk + Flurry with 4 axes is incredibly powerful. I took out a clone of the sky bear and the real sky bear in a few turns, now donning each of their faces. I found a purple templar (impossible) with his henchmen (average) and annihilated them all with ease. Finding laser turrets is also a joy as you can decapitate their laser for a great weapon to sell - I've barely used missile weapons this run - Mamon the Souldrinker went down in a single round. I'm tempted to check out the deathlands soon.

I also found a historical site with 2 space-time vorticies that continually churn out (and crush) mobs, but have spawned a number of baetyl/sparkling baetyls. Managed to get 3 attribute points from one (2 into To, 1 into Str), 180 skill points from another, and +1 int, +1 ego hat from another.

I also went for a random mutation and was lucky enough to get Adrenal Control, keeping it at level 1 for now for the cool +5 Quickness. Haven't yet read up or used the skill itself - I saw it can leave you vulnerable after usage so opted against it.

Found a historical site with two incredibly tough enemies - fire drakes (green fire-spitting guys found in salt desert), and the ice breathing lizards - was lucky to make it out of there alive. Can't wait to see what's inside there :)

I still have 5 "recover xxx from yyy" quests - are these able to be completed at the moment? I did stumble across a 2 AV pink set of gloves that gives the mutation electrical discharge (on the surface no less, just lying in the open), so I imagine these can be found somewhere in game, but to my knowledge only 4 legendary sites can be spawned.

I'm wondering if it's worth adding more points to strength past getting the +9 modifier - my end goal is to get metasteel axes which have a max strength bonus of +9. I'll probably start dumping additional points into Toughness or possibly Agility
Last edited by Anxarcule; May 3, 2017 @ 12:18am
Luke May 3, 2017 @ 3:14am 
I ran a similar build, and had a very hard time with the Sky Bear. Did you get lucky with some decapitations?

I started a STR based dung-beetle with burrowing claws and carapace, intending to go 2H Axe and just dig down. Having a rather hard time, maybe the 4-arm AGI builds are better for my play-style.

On an unrelated note, I just realized that shields dont help and only provide their penalties, if you don't have the shield skills. I've been using bucklers wrong for a very long time.
Anxarcule May 3, 2017 @ 4:00am 
I did decapitate both of them, along with a few assorted body parts. The nice thing about decapitate is you can effectively render them unable to hurt you - the purple templar's entourage I would try and chop off their arms so they couldn't do any damage to me, although they did manage to bleed on me and I imagined them yelling "Have at thee!".

My setup has me dual wielding 4 axes, and heavily invested in dual wield skill tree, so every normal attack has a 55% to attack with my offhand(s). Berserk gives you 5 rounds of guaranteed decap per attack, so by round 3 they've been attacked with 6-12 different attacks, and anything that hits chops something off. I was lucky enough to get faces from both of them, but they barely did any damage to me.

Regarding bucklers, yep without a skill in it they only serve to lower DV. Later down the line when I have more skills I'm looking forward to throwing a buckler on one of my arms and get the skill that gives a chance to stun enemies that you block. The four-armed agi build was quite good, but I think the STR/axe build is stronger, and a lot more satisfying - my max carrying capacity is in the upper 700s (without a hoversled), and meleeing is very enjoyable. Also with such a high movement speed and quickness you can always run away - even chaingun turrets I usually just sprint to them and hack away, although now with the sky bear's jetpack it should be even more interesting :)

I have a few chests in Joppa with my collection of various body parts, and the good thing is that no matter where you are you never run out of food! No ursteel/metametal axes yet, though I did find 2 metametal longswords and a metametal maul very early on which I haven't used as I was enjoying the current play style.
Anxarcule May 4, 2017 @ 3:17am 
Just when I thought things couldn't get any more fun I picked up Space Time Vortex from a random mutation (was a choice between Light Manipulation and Disintegration) - time to get deep underground to chop the head off a chrome pyramid!
Last edited by Anxarcule; May 4, 2017 @ 3:53am
Anxarcule May 5, 2017 @ 7:39am 
I think it's time to retire my character. Some times it's a PITA to be such a min-maxer completionist but sometimes it's fun!

Character stats:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=919487046
Throughout the game I used 4 Eater's Injectors (+2 str, 2 mutation points), and must have gotten 7 or so attribute points from sparking baetyls.

Snapshot of my gear:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=919480908

Endgame weapons (4 of them):
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=919479748
I created one axe and cloned 3 more using metamorphic polygel

Armor:
flexiweaved(4) reinforced crysteel shardmail 9AV, 0 DV

Missile weapon (purely just for fun, once I got it I realized nothing could stand against me):
Took the 1500 lbs. swarm rack dropped by a chrome pyramid and modded it with slendor willowy and scoped bringing the final weight down to a reasonable 187 lbs. My max capacity was 800ish, so it was very reasonable.


My respectable collection of heads (and assorted faces):

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=919286328

Last edited by Anxarcule; May 5, 2017 @ 7:47am
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Date Posted: Apr 30, 2017 @ 8:51am
Posts: 11