I wish that Vanilla and Chocola were somehow older

[NoseHairNoodler]

I would actually be able to enjoy this visual novel. The art is good, and it is written well enough. There are some really good moments. There's just some part of me that is distracted by their youth. I recently decided I would like to get into some visual novels (downloaded eden* as well) and decided to get this due to is high praise. I am not trying to pass judgment to anyone who enjoys this fiction/art/game/VN, there's just a part of my mind that can't go there.

It is not easy for me to put my finger on exactly what it is about the two characters that disturbs me. They don't technically look young. I've known grown adults who look to be just as full of youth. It's not their bodies, they have mature bodies which really could be the bodies of any fit woman. Their faces have the standard Big Eyes Small Mouth thing going on in anime, and frankly I've learned through life that people often look young if they don't overdo the alcohol or tobacco, translate that into animation and you have someone who looks blemish free and completely youthful. I don't wish to shame anyone for just looking young.

The only thing I have left is their behavior, which is obviously child-like because they are humanoid cats, and they follow the behavior patterns of both species. I'm not into Lolicon at all, and I guess I'm not versed in the arena because when I looked at the screenshots it did not appear to me to be sexualizing children, and logically I don't think that the game is strictly sexualizing children.

But, the game does give a solid set-up for legitimizing the sexualization of these two characters, which is, perhaps, what I am disturbed by. Human sexual behavior is a sticky (heh heh) subject which deserves serious attention in art. Do I believe that this VN has enlightened me, in any way, about the complex nature of human sexuality? I do not believe that the game has in any way provided enough craft and meaning to legitimize the images or story presented, it is purely a sensory and humorous journey, rather than intellectual. The world of art, specifically video games, is in dire need for mature, hard hitting, intellectual insights into human sexuality and this game does nothing to add to that.

The obvious example of this being Lolita, but that wasn't necessarily solely about the sexualization of a person.

I am not leaving a negative review, because, as I've said, I believe the game is well made. I am leaving this here as a warning to any people like me -- people who check out a game's discussion forum on Steam to see if there is any feedback addressing their specific concerns (I didn't see anything when I checked). I say this: if you think that this game might not suit you, it very well may not.

Now back to reading The Dairy Of Anais Nin.

*e: At the very least, this VN has given me cause to address certain things, and perhaps give a platform for others to address these concerns (that can't possibly be my own).

[Inari]

Sounds reasonable, my only issue would be "legitimize the images". I don't see why there is a requirement to do so.

[NoseHairNoodler]

Originally posted by Inari:

Sounds reasonable, my only issue would be "legitimize the images". I don't see why there is a requirement to do so.

My example would be the use of a 14-year-old Olivia Hussey to play the part of Juliet in Franco Zeffirelli's Romeo and Juliet. She is presented topless in a scene, and without proper context the scene can be called child pornography. Actually, though I'm not a lawyer, I'm pretty sure that a screenshot of the scene saved separately does constitute child porn. I'll go even further and say that if the movie was no good, if it did not meet the minimum amount of artistry, then that scene would be in bad taste. But thankfully it worked, and added to the greatness of the film.

The onus is with the artist to add enough merit to their work to really let their gems shine. If an artist is lazy with everything else but their gems, then those gems might not appear to be gems but something disgusting.

An example of a film not doing this correctly is Chaos by David DeFalco. Do I believe that a good film can exist with Chaos's premise? I do, and if done well enough it could be a great and insightful film. But as is, the film is very close to being absolute filth.

I don't think that this game is disgusting at all, those are just two examples of what I mean by legitimizion of images, or the responsibility of an artist.

I hope that clears up what I mean by "legitimize the images".

[NoseHairNoodler]

Originally posted by FaceEater:

Is this a joke?

The point of a discussion board is to bring forward one's thoughts on a subject. If that is all you mean to bring forward, then the answer is simply no. I hope my response of your inquiry helped in some way.

[Inari]

Eh, not sure, I see that as anything else. I don't need to legitimize humor either ^^
Maybe I'm just less touchy about sexual subjects.

[NoseHairNoodler]

Originally posted by Inari:

Eh, not sure, I see that as anything else. I don't need to legitimize humor either ^^
Maybe I'm just less touchy about sexual subjects.

That's true, humor doesn't need to be legitimized as much as serious things. Though, have you ever been in a situation where you had to modify a good joke to fit the environment and people you were with? Or a good joke from a movie falls flat outside of the movie because the joke is now missing its context?

I'm glad you're less touchy about sexual subjects. I myself am trying to embrace a more sex positive lifestyle that is meaningful, and the path is quite full of many unexpected surprises and hurdles to overcome.

Take care :)

[NoseHairNoodler]

Originally posted by Inari:

Eh, not sure, I see that as anything else.

And you're right, it is kinda of like expecting pornography to be more than pornography (which is an interesting meta-discussion on its own).

I would say that this VN does inherently exist above that level, given the relatively lengthy story and emotional investment involved between the player (observer?) and characters and story.

[NoseHairNoodler]

Thinking about it, a way around this issue, for me (if I were to create a story using this premise), is to keep the exposition, but allow for a few years to jump forward after the exposition. This would increase the amount of bonding between the main character (forgive me, I can't remember his name) and his two catgirls and add to the ownership/guardian/daddy theme going on. Not that that's relevant to this story at all but going forward I'll add that to my writing tools.

[Jin-]

Personally i like how they are. Could be even little younger, but also could be little older. I don't care if its between pre-teen or young adult when it comes to Anime/Manga. It all depends how character is. Sometimes i may get my eyes stuck on some loli character because how good she is and cute compared to annoying busty beauty. So its a choice should i ?fap? with the loli picture or with that busty one? Choice is clear in my case and in this situation.

But i hoped there could be a little choices, because i did not really wan't to get that close with Vanilla. Not because of looks or anything, but it felt a bit "pity" love. I like Vanilla, but not this way :). Maybe in Vol2. then some choices for us. (Want's to try Cinnamon)

Chocola? 100000x times more, never get bored of her.

[TwinShadow]

Thing is though, according to the story of this VN, all the humanoid cats age very similarily to real cats, in which they do reach sexual maturity in just under a year I believe.

It's also noted that the MC has actually taken care of them both when they were first found. Due to that, you could say that they already have quite a bond between them, with Vanilla being a bit more tsuntsun about it, or just plain shy. Yet at the same time, extremely coy.

Concerning "child porn", I do get sick of people trying to call it that for this title. (not that you were, believe me... I've seen far worse in my days that I'd rather have not seen...) Yes, Vanilla does have that petite frame of hers, but what people don't realize, there are women in the real world that aren't "gifted" in breast size and are rather small. Are they still children then? Of course not, they're grown women who just happen to have a smaller cup size than the perverted perception is of the US and other places in the world of what women should have.

There's actually another eroge I played and enjoyed the story, there was a topic for it here a while back, seems like it got buried.. Its called Wanko to Kurasou, and the dog/cat humanoids age similariy again to that of real dogs and cats. I guess one could argue that yes, it does have loli in it but the trick is, to distinguish the difference from something fake, from reality. Which I guess is extremely hard to do with the average gamer these days... Quite sad when you think about it.

[Veraducks]

I'd like to take the discussion away from sexual and bring it to something that, to me, was a bit more odd.
In a rather terrible "live blog" of me playing this game, one of the aspects I focused on was the catgirl's aging. In the Real World (TM), cats are adults at a year of age. The average puts them between 16-20 human years. This is actually presented as being true in some other catgirl "canons".

As such, here is an excerpt from my live reaction. It was during the takoyaki scene.
"Oh, they age like normal cats.

That’s…actually somewhat depressing to think about. I mean, they're sentient, I'm eventually gonna be pounding them, and they wouldn't live long enough to see someone all the way through college. You grow up with one, and they die. Which is more depressing than a normal pet because you’ve probably sexually attached yourself, if not romantically.

Whoah whoah wait. 6 months and they’re 10 in human years? Chocola and Vanilla are 9 months and practically of age? The ♥♥♥♥?

My cat is 12 years and still big and healthy. These women would be living to, at best 10 years.

That’s even more ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up if I'm right. "