My detailed opinions about the game (kind of review)

[Kurozora Konoi]

I’ll start with saying that these are my opinions, and mine only. Some people may not agree, and I won’t argue with personal tastes. The only purpose here is sincere feedback for the creators, and maybe useful info for players.
Also, if you find out on my page or whatever that I don't own the game, this is because I've purchased it on Winter Wolves website (but you can safely purchase it on Steam, it won't force the censored version as it does with Loren).

With that out of the way, let me tell you one thing – this game is really good! We all compare it to Loren the Amazon Princess, and I’ll do it too in due time. But it would be unfair to judge the game based on the comparison only, and label it as good or bad because it isn’t the same as Loren.
At the same time, I won’t tell you the game is flawless, since it has some serious flaws in my opinion, but more on that later.

One of the first thing I’ve noticed and liked about the game, is the mood, the atmosphere. The atmosphere is really good – it’s cold, and it remains cold for quite a long time. It usually matches the current season quite well, and for a game called Seasons of the Wolf, it can only be good, right? One of the things that make the mood great is the music. I enjoyed every single track of the OST, and the ending was gorgeous (it’s such a shame Loren didn’t have an ending song like that!). And besides, Aravorn is a fascinating world, and I always want to know more about it. If you had an epic adventure in a boring setting, the overall experience wouldn’t be so good.
On an artistic note, the game is quite pretty, but I wish it would have exactly the same graphics as Loren. This is not about personal tastes, but just for the designs to match well – seeing characters/monsters from Loren with their original art here in SotW is really weird.

Speaking of epic adventure, let’s talk about that. So, mild spoilers ahead.
This game isn’t about saving the world. It revolves mainly about smaller problem. It was even said in the game itself, this isn’t about the great heroes who protect nations and defeat demons, this is about small people who do what they can for other small people. I think the game made a good job of letting us know this ISN’T Loren’s crew of legendary heroes – this is only Shea’s and Althea’s small group of traveling companions wishing for better lives and to find a place in the world.
Now, I’ve seen people say this is a good point for the game. I won’t disagree, but I won’t agree either. Epic tales of world salvation ARE something I enjoy – very much. But I don’t have anything against a change of pace.
I think the story is good, the problems the characters face feel so real sometimes, while still happening in a fantasy universe. The slavery theme is something I really like in fiction, and I really love how it was addressed in two opposite ways in Loren and SotW, with Saren being a slave since the moment he was born, and in a place this is something normal, and Shea having just been enslaved. Of course, this may be different if you play Loren with Elenor, but this isn’t the point here.
And also, the main theme of the game. Betrayal. I think it was handled in a gorgeous way. It made the game really sad and painful so many times, and so many times you have to decide between two grey choices, no black and white, without knowing the outcome beforehand. And realizing the outcome won’t be 100% good no matter the answer. Of course, some of the betrayals and deceptions in the game, I could figure it out before it happened, like Chalassa ending up fighting Shea. But sometimes it caught me off guard, like the truth about Krimm. Really, congratulations for that.

Now, since I was talking about the pace before, it has already been said, and I’ll say it again – this game is a RPG with VN aspects, and not the other way around like Loren. I’m not really into it, but that fits in the issues I have with the game, and I shall talk about that later.

Before I do that, I need to talk about the characters, so again, mild spoilers ahead.
Overall, I like the characters – some of them more than the others, like Vaelis (I wish he was a romance option!) and the spirits from the DLC.
I’ve played as Shea, and I really liked him too. He really grew up with all that happened to him, and I must admit it was really painful to look at him being so desperate at the end of the DLC, even knowing things ended up well thanks to the ending of the base game.
I’m not so fond of Althea, but I’m not really into female protagonists anyway – well, at least female MCs, and she may act in a different way if you play as her anyway, so yeah, I can’t really tell my opinions about that.


Well, now with all the pleasant things said, I need to address the issues.
To me, the game has three major issues, and one averted one.
- The world map
- The combat
- The romances
* (averted) The ending

Let’s start with the world map. While I really like the location explorable maps, and I’d love to see that in future Aravorn games, please put the continent/world map again, as it was in Loren. For the entire game, I was totally confused about where in the world I was, where were location A to location B, and so on. And even now, I have NO IDEA where these things were. It’s a shame since it was bothering me all the time. So yeah, if you were to keep only one map – thought it would be nice to have a world map and explorable maps of the locations – let it be the former.

Now, the combat… I understand the desire to make an RPG with visual novel elements rather than a VN with RPG elements. But I personally don’t like the result at all. In Loren, all the fights made sense to me, and I was honestly thrilled with each one. Even on my third playthrough I don’t play on story mode. In SotW, battles are a chore – I was so annoyed with them that I ended up playing in easy mode starting somewhere by middle-winter, and to the end of the game, just to be done with the fighting faster. Of course, some of the fights were good, but with so many of them it wasn’t enjoyable. Besides, RPGs with romance and VN elements are not SO rare, while VNs with RPG or tactical RPG are something really hard to find.

And, the romances… This is the biggest downside I think. When you make a game with such a variety of romance options as Loren, and when you put so much effort in the way it shapes the story, you really put the expectations level high for your next game. I was really disappointed to see you only have 4 romance options in this game. And for most people it easily narrows to two or even one. A completionist or someone who loves the entire team may be pleased with trying all of the romance options. But then, you have straight people who only want to do straight romances, leaving them with Althea/Jariel and Shea/Krimm only. And of course gay or lesbian people who only play these romances, wich will leave them with two or even one option only (if they want to play with the character of their gender and their orientation only). Other people may be like me – I don’t like romancing female characters unless I really love them, and I don’t like playing with female characters either, unless one of their romance options is really awesome. That leaves me with only one option here, wich is Shea/Riley. So I was VERY lucky to really like Riley.
But this isn’t the only problem about romance in SotW, and this is why I think this is the biggest downside. I like the fact that you advance the relationship with your teammates by choosing specific answers (or beginning to the answers) instead of the tone of speech with the obvious “romance” option, but I would like more important romantic conversations between the characters, to really see the relationship evolve when they speak about the past, and not only in the bath house. I guess the lack of camp discussion is to blame here – the camp was one of the best features in Loren, and I really miss it. That being said, what I miss too is the fact that the romance doesn’t influence the story until the DLC, when the couple you choose to do has special dialogues. I love when a game has little details hinting about who the main character likes the most (like the Jul battle in Loren, when Saren/Elenor reacts when Jul is about to hurt the one they have the highest affinity with) , or actual scenario variations, like most of the fourth chapter in Loren.
Also, while this isn’t as big as a problem, I’d like to point out that the two females you can romance are “strong” or hard to approach women who can really be scary sometimes, while the two males are way “nicer” and gentler. Again, I don’t complain about the only romance I could do, but more variety is better. I understand that people may want to see “strong women”, but still, I’m sure some people would rather romance a kind and delicate girl.
Now, on a brighter note, it was nice to see lots of couple dialogues in the DLC, and the couple scene at the end was one of my favorite moments in the game.

To finish with the game issues, let’s talk about the averted one. The ending. Honestly, the ending of the base game was one of the most disappointing endings I’ve ever seen. It wasn’t bad story-wise (even if it “lacked something”), but it was almost boring because of the total lack of climax, big ending battle or whatever. I understand this isn’t a “save the world” situation with a big fight against an overpowered villain, but… a game with combat NEEDS a climax. Fortunately, the DLC with its awesome mechanics and great final battle – or battles, should I say – and the arrival of the wolves at the end really made up for it.


And now, to end this, I’ll do what everyone does, I’ll compare with Loren.
I’ll probably do a review like this one about Loren too, when I’ll be done with my third playthrough.
I’ve already compared the romance feature between the games, and how I really like it in Loren more, except for the way the dialogue options are handled, so I won’t dwell on that.

As I’ve also told, I really like the combat more in Loren, but my opinion isn’t as clear about the character’s attributes and skills. I really like the attribute system in SotW – more complete and enjoyable. It’s also nice to see the traits and skills being on separate tables, and I like the way traits are handled. But the skills… In Loren, with that skill tree, I feel really satisfied when I reach the skill/spell level I want, and I like the simple fact that you have levels too, etc. I miss that, and I think the skill table we have in SotW is a step backward.

Now, the artistic part. I like the music in both games, but SotW clearly wins. As for the illustrations, I have mixed opinions. Overall, I like the art in Loren waay more than in SotW. Except for the CGs, and well… this IS an issue, since these are very important.

Now, let’s talk about story and characters. I can’t and I won’t compare the quality of the story, because these are really different, and I really enjoy both.
But the characters… overall, I like the characters in both games, BUT! In Loren, I really wanted to save everyone – I’d have been really upset if I played without the DLC – while in SotW, I obviously wanted them to survive, but… I would only have been upset if one of my three favorites died, and one of them is Shea himself, so I guess I feel less attachment to them overall. But again, I think the lack of camp is to blame here. And also… well, in Loren, there was a “bond” between the characters that I really liked – even with all the troubles all along, with all the fights, with all the misunderstandings, at the end they were really united, and Fost’s trial was a good proof of that (well, at least if the payer don’t mess it up!). In SotW they were a good team, but they lacked that bond, except for some of them. Now, this is understandable with the theme of the game and all, but unfortunately it’s only natural for some people to feel less attached to them.



I think I’ve said everything I could about Seasons of the Wolf. Overall a great game, with some big issues too. Loren isn’t flawless either, but as lots of people, I still like it more. But while the last part of my review makes really obvious wich game is the best in my opinion, I insist on telling that I really love SotW, even if I don't think it's as good as Loren was.

I hope to see more awesome game in the world of Aravorn, and I hope this review will be useful in one way or another.


And Winter Wolves, thank you for making great games like SotW and Loren!

[Winter Wolves]

Wow long review! But was interesting for me to read, so thanks for posting it.

Of course I don't agree with everything but it's normal - tastes are tastes. For me the important is to try making a game that MOST people like.

A thing I won't repeat for sure in future games it's the isometric map. I agree was too confusing, so Loren 2 will have the usual world map. Maybe some more close-up maps, but still using that single-screen layout and clicking to travel.

Combat: SOTW combat was more detailed but I think the main issue is that was too long. An user/big fan went through both games and surprise, the story-battle (so not grinding) were about the same in Loren vs SOTW. So it's not like in SOTW there was more fight (as number) but probably that the fights lasted more.

In my upcoming RPG "Queen Of Thieves" (in beta in my forums now) I use a simplified version, a party of 3 (because of story reasons) and no front/back row. The numbers are smaller (no HP over 100) but the skill also do less damage, but in general every encounter doesn't last too long. Ithink that game could also be called as you say a VN with RPG aspects, and not a RPG with VN.

In general, I like to experiment with the games, I haven't made two identical RPGs since I started working on them with my first Planet Stronghold. Then I see what people say, and on the next game I try to take the best of the past games. Not always easy to manage, but I'm trying :)

[Kurozora Konoi]

Oh, thank you for your answer, it's always interesting to see the developper's point of view. Is the Queen of Thieves another game in the Aravorn universe? I'll probably play at least some of your other games at some point, but for now I'll stick with one world.

I like big teams, but I don't mind small parties as long as the story is good, and the presence or not of front and back row are both ok. But yeah, I guess you're right, maybe it's the lenght of the battles that was unnerving to me in SotW. I also felt more "purpose" in the Loren fights, since you can't avoid the random encounters in SotW unless you reload (like the parts about checking traps or collecting flowers).

Anyway, I can't wait to play your next games, keep up with the awesomeness!

[Talana 💃]

@kurozora, - thank you so much for your review ! Or (kind of review )
Very thought through, and very good ! ( Hard to check your profile , though - since you have it set to private ).
I read through it all, and I have to say I almost agree with everything , though I have not yet played the DLC, so I would not know anything about that . I enjoyed the combat system, though , as much as in Loren , in fact.
Like you, I especially liked the attribute system
I had no problem with the world map , but I agree the one in Loren was way better !

So about romances - that`s where this game disappointed me ; I usually do not like to play male characters , but in some games it is ok - In my second playthrough, I chose to play Shea.

But like you say, the romance options - to me, as a hetero , is - urgh. Not good. There is no real guy to romance for Althea - Jariel is just a sweet little boy . And Shea`s options are two scary girls ,!
Krimm is definitely a great character, - and probably also the most surprising story twist ! But she would need a man like Amukiki. You get the feeling she would crush poor Shea, just by looking at him .And to me, she is Sheas` only romance option. Maybe if they would have made her softer and kinder around him - maybe.

I actually romanced Eleanor and Amukiki in Loren. It was great fun, and very touching at times - and the time it took, the careful approaches ; Their romance was important and meant something.
( And no, it does not look the same with a sweet elfgirl and a wrestler, as with a sweet elfboy with a girl wrestler ; that latter does not look right at all. Maybe old fashioned thinking, - well, it is old fashion thinking, and I am very ok with that. Most people still are - I do not think it will change anytime soon. )
Please , dear @Winter Wolves - make your new games` romances as intriguing !

I love both these games ( and also lots of other WW titles ; @Winter Wolves - great news about your new game !!! And I also look forward to finally buy SOTW DLC) ,
so my posting here is by no means meant to be negative ; only a hope that some things will become a 10/10, in stead of 8/10 .
- and everyone knows that 8/10 is a very good score

[Kurozora Konoi]

@Talana
Thank you for your input! I did two romances in Loren, both with Saren - Draco and Mesphit. I don't think Amukiki would be a good option for Saren, while I actually agree, I can picture Elenor with him. The funny thing is that I like Loren and Myrth a lot, and I'm sure I would have liked both romances with Saren IF I tried before romancing Draco - but I loved his romance so much I couldn't bring myself to play more than one other romance option. And since I've tried Mesphit out of curiosity about him and because he has my favorite design in the game... so yeah, that's enough.
I don't know if the romance with Elenor and Mesphit would be good, but I actually didn't like it very much with Saren - not enough dialogues between the two, and an awkward mood - not what I thought it would be. But I really enjoyed the romance with Draco (besides, he's my favorite characters from both games together, so yeah), and I can say the same as you said about the Elenor and Amukiki romance, it really has meaning and it's awesome in all ways. The chapter 4 is great with them.

And yeah, when I do straight couples in a game, I tend to be old fashioned too, now that I think about it, so I don't mind having kind girls.
And I also agree about Krimm - she's a cool character, but I can't picture her with Shea. To be honest, if Chalassa was an option for Shea and Krimm for Althea, I'd be way more interested in both romances. But well, I'm very happy with the only option I had.
I won't spoil you, but maybe you'll like the Althea and Jariel option more if you play the DLC - I think I'd like that romance if I was playing as Althea, but I don't like her enough, so yeah, I'll pass.

[Winter Wolves]

Originally posted by kurozora.konoi:

Oh, thank you for your answer, it's always interesting to see the developper's point of view. Is the Queen of Thieves another game in the Aravorn universe? I'll probably play at least some of your other games at some point, but for now I'll stick with one world.

Thanks for the nice words both of you :)

Yes QoT is still set in Aravorn. The game though has a female only cast (the three sisters). So keep that in mind. Anyway there's a free demo in forums, I think the writing is fun, and there's a lot of romances, though only GxB and GxG (otome and yuri) because of the female only protagonists :)

[Kurozora Konoi]

@Winter Wolves
Oh, I don't mind otome at all. I really love the genera actually. I just don't like playing as girls when I have the choice. If the game is set up with a female MC with no other options, I'm totally okay with that!
Well, I can't way to play now!

[Talana 💃]

Thank you so much, @kurozora !!! -
Now I have a lot better reason to play the DLC - except for a couple of twists I took in the story -
( stupidly enough to try and get all achievements , which I have stopped doing in all my rpg`s since then - Trying to get all achievements ruins the stories for me, destroys really getting into them )
- Jariel is the only romance I am gonna follow with Althea, and your review and words made me put the DLC at the top of my wishlist at once ! Gonna buy it as soon as my budget allows it !

[Talana 💃]

Originally posted by Winter Wolves:

Originally posted by kurozora.konoi:

Oh, thank you for your answer, it's always interesting to see the developper's point of view. Is the Queen of Thieves another game in the Aravorn universe? I'll probably play at least some of your other games at some point, but for now I'll stick with one world.

Thanks for the nice words both of you :)

Yes QoT is still set in Aravorn. The game though has a female only cast (the three sisters). So keep that in mind. Anyway there's a free demo in forums, I think the writing is fun, and there's a lot of romances, though only GxB and GxG (otome and yuri) because of the female only protagonists :)

Dear @Winter Wolves ; as always ; Thank you so much for making lovely games ! , and for always being so present in forum !

[Talana 💃]

I tried to find the QoT demo in forum, but no.
Could you please post the link to it, @Winter Wolves ?

[Winter Wolves]

Yes is a bit hard to find, here's the latest version link:
http://www.winterwolves.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=3891
game page (WIP): http://winterwolves.com/queenofthieves.htm

[Talana 💃]

Thank you so much !