[Feature Request] More grade feedback in game modes (especially Asuka)

[Collapsed PLUG]

So, I was waiting for the chance to dive into TGM series with the release of TGM4, especially Asuka mode. However, I’ve been feeling like something is missing in terms of player feedback, particularly with grades.

TGM’s Grade Recognition System has always been a core part of what makes progress feel rewarding and measurable. TAP’s cue-based system (the grade visibly went up as you met the threshold), Ti’s real-time section COOL/REGRETs, and even T.A. Death’s sparse but clear M/GM system all provided some way to evaluate your performance. But in TGM4, Normal mode only gives you the "a of b" AER after you top out or clear. The logic behind this rank *could* be added in-game or explained out of game in the future, so I might just have to wait. Master mode is for absolute masters, so I get that there are only MASTER and rumoured GM (just like T.A. Death). But Asuka feels a bit too minimal: outside of hitting the 1300 mark in under 7 minutes (you get Asuka-Master), there’s no grading or section-based feedback. Just a final level number if you fail.

I personally find it hard to know whether I'm doing "okay" or not. I'm trying to improve and benchmark myself, so to speak. For example, I recently hit level 670 in Asuka, but is it decent? Above average? Absolute noob? There’s no in-game feedback to help answer that.

Again, I understand Arika is intentionally withholding full GRS details right now. But I’d like to respectfully request considering adding "lower grade" feedback, even if it's purely cosmetic or section-based, similar to how S1–S13 were used in Ti’s Shirase. It could motivate more players to push forward, not just the elites aiming for Am with the shortest time possible. Maybe we could have, for example, A1, A2, with each section cleared but if you have been denied of leveling up because Konoha wasn't there before Level X99, deduct a grade... Something like that.

To be clear, I love the challenge and the style of TGM4. I just think a little more transparency or grading tiers (in Asuka, because I believe Normal would be officially revealed eventually) would go a long way in setting a small, achievable goal towards the Grand Master.

Thanks for reading, and curious what others think! Do you think the Asuka's "Your level" convey enough about your skill compared to dev's expectations?

[PetitPrince]

I had similar thoughts on what we lost by having no grades recognition system in the game and I generally agree with your feelings. I'm glad we are at least 2 peoples thinking the same things !

For me we lost 2 things with the removal of grades:

• A way for the the developer to fine-tune what they want the best player to be. For instance let's say my personal best in Asuka is somewhere in the 730s. While one could argue that I'm a better than Collapsed PLUG strictly becausd 730 > 670, maybe he has a cleaner overall stack, or maybe I abused the rewind mechanics, or maybe he's a faster player but just cannot handle the speed in section 6xx, or maybe I just had a luck streak in that section. With a grade system you can integrate those consideration to the game and somehow judge who is the better player more fairly than just comparing the levels
  
• A reward for the player. For all the flak the EA guy got with the infamous "a sense of pride and accomplishment" post, I think the core feeling is right : unlocking stuff and having the game acknowledge it is rewarding (... just not do that for DLC character you paid a hefty price for). And it that sense being able to say "I unlocked S7 in Asuka" and having the game display this in the leaderboard is somewhat more tangible than just a number (here: 670). If we look at Bayonetta (that also integrate a ranking system), it's immediately clear to me whose the better player between those who has Stone, Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinium or Pure Platinium trophies. They didn't just give Platinium and Pure Platinium trophies, they award the whole spectrum of skills.

Collapsed PLUG mentioned the lack of feedback, and I agree that this is something that TGM4 could be better at. Going back to Bayonetta, each encounter was measured and graded according to Combo, Time, and Damage received and this all contributed to an overall Grade. I think this is good feedback for the player ("My combo were good but I got hit too many time, hence my Bronze rating on Damage") and a good way for the player to be better at the game. This give to the player a clear goal to hit and to work with (focus on speed, focus on the enemy, focus on the combo, etc.).

I think TGM4 should do similar, and in fact in the series there was already something similar with the medal system. You got bronze/silver/gold medal for section time (ST), Tetrises (SK), All Clear (AC) and Combo (CO). If we can get this back this would be really cool for the player to be better at the game (I remember some screenshot of early version of TGM4 that still had those). Maybe we can even add a "holes made" medal ? (I half remember that "holes created" was one of the criteria in the TGM3 pentagon at the end of a game).
And maybe we could go even further and have per-section medals ? (similar idea to Bayonetta where each encounter is graded)

One other way to give player good feedback is to take advantage of the replay function. I think if there was a way to immediately replay the recording (rather than having to go the the practice menu) at the end of the game this would help the player see where he did good, where he did bad, and where he could improve. I saw that Steam relatively recently integrated a timeline API that let the dev add events marker to the game recording (video, documentation page). I think this is an intriguing idea and could be exploited for TGM4. You could have a replay with all Tetris highlighted, a danger marker when you are about to top out but survive for a long time, etc.

So yeah, there's room for improvement for TGM4 in the subject of player feedback. Note that for a potential grading system, I don't mind having the precise mechanics of them hidden from me. Rather I'd like for the game to point me to where it thinks I should focus my training effort.

[XeaL]

From reading previous threads, having a complex grading system seems like something TTC is against, preferring the simpler "single number to rule them all".

In Asuka at least, having just S1..S12 then Asuka-Master is sufficient IMO. It feels close enough to a budget Shirase to me :)

[Collapsed PLUG]

Originally posted by XeaL:

From reading previous threads, having a complex grading system seems like something TTC is against, preferring the simpler "single number to rule them all"

Oh yeah, now that you have mentioned it, I remembered Mihara-san saying something like "no complex GRS". It could be temporary, but for now, you're right that we are stuck with the current level counter for the Asuka mode. But I want Backsteps and Infinities usages to be counted against for the overall "how clean you were" measurement.

And it's called Asuka, so I reckon, why not A1, A2... A12, and Am? :)