[SPOILERS] The Traitor

[Kinuskipyyri]

Okay, so, as a general discussion on the reveal of the traitor. For those who have not played through Episode 5, stop right now: Spoilers ahead.

I felt the identity of the traitor, either way, was really... weird, underwhelming, out of place? To me, neither Duncan or Royland had a good-enough motivation. They were both presented as intensely loyal, not to mention very trusted people to Lord Gregor. So it felt strange that they'd become traitors, no matter what kind of a weak f*ckwad the new lord was.

Royland was presented as a veteran, who'd been with House Forrester through thick and thin, and despite his militant and uhh "trigger happy" attitude, he never thought of nothing but what is best for the House.

And Duncan was someone SO deeply trusted that he was the only one allowed to know about the North Grove. Duncan even took a huge risk in sending Gared to the Wall. Even went up north to check up on him.

So I'm hoping we'll find out something more, big about the traitor in the future, because otherwise... they would be just... PETTY. Deciding to ragequit because they didn't get their way. How in the world would their betrayal aid house Forrester in any way or form?

I personally would have found it immensely more interesting and heartbreaking if, say, Talia turned out to be the traitor. Maybe the girl would've received empty promises of Ryon's safety. Or something. Then Duncan/Royland would take the blame to protect Talia... or SOMETHING. Sure, would've been really damn cold-hearted of Talia to demand their death, but... hey, it would've made more sense. Would've been a much better motivation. Talia is still a child, so such naïveté would be understandable.

So... there's my two cents... and if someone actually has brought this up already, my apologies.

[Stellar]

I suspected Royland before I knew there was a traitor. I didn't suspect Duncan because of the North Grove element.

It would have been nice if the Maester could have been an option.

[Brain_Grape]

I agree. The reasoning behind Duncan or Royland being the traitor seemed really half-assed. I would have liked it better if the Maester or Lady Forrester were the traitor. Either one I think would have a more decent reason to betray Rodrick, such as Lady Forrester wanting to save Ryon or the Maester doing it for any number of reasons (he always seemed untrustworthy and unloyal to me). The traitor being the non-Sentinel option seemed weak and petty. They both seemed like such loyal and decent men to House Forrester, especially the former Lord Forrester through descriptions in the game, that it just seems odd they would lose faith in Rodrick because of hard times.

So, yeah, the traitor reveal was odd and underwhelming for me and seemed poorly thought out. Heck, I even like your suggestion of Talia being the traitor better than what we got even though I could never see her doing that (and she didn't actually take part in many council meetings such as deciding to save ryon or go after Gryff in episode 3)

[Paincakes]

Being that it's the one that's not the sentinel is such a huge cop out. I think this is tell tales worst recent game. It's like they don't really want to develop this game, they just want to push it out

[TheMercenary]

I hate complaining about it because TellTale finally gave us a choice that held consequences throughout the season, and we're here criticizing them... But I just didn't like the reasons behind my reveal. Is it a combination of the choices you make or whoever isn't sentinel? Because my Ethan chose Duncan because he seemed more level-headed, but my Rodrik had a fondness for Royland and generally being ballsy and standing up to the whitehills. I really only went with Duncan on things that it seemed like my sentinel should be there for, such as the visit to the Highpoint or whatever the Whitehill home is called. When Royland was revealed has my traitor, his reasons just felt so stupid. He said I was trying to shy away from the coming fight (untrue. I stood up to the whitehills, and how would betraying us help the forresters), I chose Duncan for sentinel (true, but he already made a choice to be mad and not be there for the family and he realized and regretted that he got Ethan killed. He's still mad about that?), and because I took Duncan to the Whitehills' home (I took my sentinel on a diplomatic mission. Is that so unreasonable? Besides, there was a traitor before that episode).

It's just complete bs. I wish there had been 3 different outcomes, then I'd be happy. Duncan is the traitor if you were butt buddies with Royland, Royland is the traitor if you were butt buddies with Duncan, and the Maester is the traitor if you valued both men's opinions and treated them with respect because "YOLO lol" :p

[HamburgerHo]

this episode was the worst imo. the traitor reveal and judgement was just soo rushed and underwhelming. like cmon royland, you're saying this is all my fault, and i brought it on myself for reasons like not having a spine and not bringing soldiers with me to whitehill castle, and that my father would be ashamed. and that's enough reason for you to betray the entire family? we even successfully captured gryff and brokered a trade to get ryon back, and royland is still mad. that is just too unrealistic telltale. if anyone was that pissed off at rodrick, at worst they would just quit on the forrester house and get out of the North.

the pit fighters story was useless as well, seeing as most of the 'army' died. just seemed like an excuse to have an extra filler fight scene with asher in the pit. had they made dany keep her promise giving asher the 2nd sons, they could have used that time to make a proper reunion between Rodrick and Asher.

back in episode 2, someone here complained the game was too sad, and no matter what you do, there is no sense of achievement. i agreed, but thought that would definitely change. after episode 5.... this ♥♥♥♥ is the most depressing game i've ever played! really hoping episode 6 makes this worth it

[boomermojo]

I agree. But was actually impressed at telltale making a diverging storyline for chapter 6.

[Eisäck]

Originally posted by bobomajo:

I agree. But was actually impressed at telltale making a diverging storyline for chapter 6.

well i hope they do it proper and dont just give us same scenes and dialogeus with 2 different faces

[Simon Adebisi]

I knew it was Duncan. I had suspicions also on the mother thinking she could have betrayed solely to protect Ryon, but the Duncan flip was pretty obvious.

[ButterBottoms]

Had my suspicions of Duncan considering Gwen used him as a contact to set up the meeting with Rodrik.

[KOT]

It's a Telltale game, not sure what you guys expected... They stick to their formula and many things were predictable right off the bat, the whole Sentinel thing especially.

You can see budget constraints and resource management crawling out of every screen in this game. It's obvious that money dictate and ultimately shackle the entire writing department, who are limited by all the limits animators and other game designers have (just like they do in every other Telltale game).

But hey it's a very tight environment for artists to work in, so it's an achievement of its own that the game is as good as it is. And I can appreciate that. It just doesn't come even close to the books or the show. The writing especially. But I still enjoy it for what it is.

[priess]

however you choose to defend the devs (technical/budget limitations) or game ("I knew right off the bat!" is probably the lamest boast ever - everyone goes through all the options while watching stuff ffs), nothing changes the fact that the traitor plot is hamfisted nonsense.
I honestly laughed through their respective explanations when they were revealed as none of the things they've said made ANY sense whatsoever.
My suspicion is that the original idea was to make Maester the traitor (the bit when Griff beats the sh!t out of him for "not doing enough" makes a pretty decent case), but then again, I guess I'd actually have to watch some decent TV to expect logical twists rather than shockers made for effect

[LordStuff]

I feel like it's rather boring that it's basically the one who you didn't choose as sentinel.. kind of disappointed me a little bit. Before I knew, I suspected Royland because he's a warrior, and I thought he would do something like this to bring the houses to war. I was very hesitant, letting Royland and the Glenmore soldiers stay back in Ironrath when you go visit Whitehill, because I thought he would do something stupid.

Duncan being the traitor didn't make much sense in my opinion.. After all he sent Gared to the Nightwatch only so he can find the North Grove. I guess Duncan would more likely be someone who'd never disobey the Foresters.. I'm glad I chose him as Sentinel, that way it made much more sense to me..

Both ways, the traitor says he did it to save the house. Sounds kinda odd to me, saving the house by betraying a Forester lord, pushing them into slavery. I guess Whitehill wouldn't have killed all of them, as they are better craftsmen and he needs their skill. But in the end, it would have meant that the Forester house basically lost everything. What kind of help is that..

[Silent J]

"I betrayed and destroyed House Forrester because I had to save House Forrester!"

Yeah that would get a C- in any freshman creative writing class.

[priess]

Originally posted by Giants With Class:

"I betrayed and destroyed House Forrester because I had to save House Forrester!"

Yeah that would get a C- in any freshman creative writing class.

I'm not a teacher (yet) but the writing would have to be absolutely terrific for this kind of oxymoron to get anything but an F

[Silent J]

Originally posted by Erased:

Originally posted by Giants With Class:

"I betrayed and destroyed House Forrester because I had to save House Forrester!"

Yeah that would get a C- in any freshman creative writing class.

I'm not a teacher (yet) but the writing would have to be absolutely terrific for this kind of oxymoron to get anything but an F

Admittedly, I would love to agree with you.