About Tomcat's gender identity

[JohnnyTheWolf]

So I watched the trailer highlighting the voice cast for the upcoming PS4 release and I was surprised to hear Tomcat being voiced by a woman. Now, do not get me wrong: I do not think there is anything wrong with that, but to tell the truth, I thought the character were simply a gay man and as such I imagined them with a male voice. So this just leaves me confused as to what their gender is supposed to be.

I hope it is not insensitive of me to ask, as I am not part of the LGBT+ community and I would be very much interested to get a better understanding of Tomcat as a character.

[non.horation]

Tomcat uses "they" pronouns in the game, so they're neither a man nor a woman. (If you're curious you can google genderqueer or nonbinary)

[Amarantamin]

Tomcat talks like a southern woman. He mentions that he enjoyed stories about the south & wishes he were a 'southern belle'. The terms he uses match that, such as the way he refers to the PC as 'hon' when first meeting. Based on that, I figured he speaks in an effeminate tone.

[SonarPup]

Originally posted by non.horation:

Tomcat uses "they" pronouns in the game, so they're neither a man nor a woman. (If you're curious you can google genderqueer or nonbinary)

Yup. This. Tomcat does have a somewhat more male-leaning appearance, but definitely has the speech patterns of a southern woman (almost exaggeratedly), and is referred to with gender-neutral pronouns (they/them). As such, either a male or female voice actor would've worked fine- not to mention, there are quite a few trans* (be they fully transitioning or just non-binary or whatever) people that are biologically male, and yet have extremely feminine voices.

Being genderfluid myself I'm a little jealous on that last bit, but whatever. Such is life. Probably voice train at some point, which should help.

@OP, I would just like to say, gender and sexuality are unrelated - there is some correlation, in that most people are cisgendered, and most people are straight, but just because someone is gay does not mean they are effeminate, nor does someone being effeminate mean they are gay. I enjoy presenting female - I am entirely into women. Unfortunately. I get hit on by guys more often than I'd like lol, but I suppose it means I'm doing something right, I guess.

And I don't think you're being insensitive. Some people like to jump down others' throats for not being exactly as excessively tactful as they want. It's clear your interest comes from a place of genuine curiosity and desire for understanding, which is great, and something that should be fostered and encouraged rather than criticized for not being the absolute pinnacle of PC.

Anyway, if you (or anyone else I guess) have any other questions about that kind of thing, you can feel free to message me or whatever on here, too. I guess. I'll admit, still kinda figuring myself out so might not be the absolute best resource, but all that stuff is kinda relative anyway - people can have wildly different experiences, or not fall exactly into a label.

Edit: Wow, just realized this thread is from September lol. Oops. Whatever.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

That is fine. I would rather be safe than sorry.

[Ailes]

This game has many gender identity question marks. Turing and TOMCAT are being called them/they, Sympathy looks like a guy but is being called she/her, the bartenders are gay, the two punks are apparently gay too, Lexi seemingly as well, and I suppose Jess too.

I don't want to offend anyone but it isn't a crime to be hetereosexual or have a more classic gender identification. Only rather irrelevant side-characters seem to be straight in ROM. Bringing in voice actors for the entire (?) game was begging for these question marks to be cleared up I guess. Unless you can find voices that translate into they/them?

No hard feelings, but these details sure can be confusing. English isn't my mother tongue but they/them is a plural form to me and seeing it being used for single persons (or in case of Turing robot) can be irritating and hickup-ishy in written form. I don't know if real people with less defined gender/sexuality identification ever refer to themselves like this?

That is not say I haven't seen this before. There is a character in "Ratings War", a CYOA game, who is constantly they/them. At first I thought the writer had ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up or misused copy & replace or something like that. Took me a while to understand what this was about.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

It is definitely not a crime to be straight; I am one myself.

However, when LGBT+ voices are so few and far between in the video game industry, it makes sense for MidBoss to make a game for themselves by themselves in addition to their promotion of the queer gaming community with their convention (GaymerX) and documentary (Gaming in Color).

[Ailes]

Well I'm glad there is more to it than just that. I dislike how so many visual novels are essentially the representations of the wet dreams of their makers. This goes for any sexual/gender preference. There are maybe as many or more visual novels about gay/queer wet dreams as there are about big breasted sluts.

[SonarPup]

Originally posted by Sharisad:

This game has many gender identity question marks. Turing and TOMCAT are being called them/they, Sympathy looks like a guy but is being called she/her, the bartenders are gay, the two punks are apparently gay too, Lexi seemingly as well, and I suppose Jess too.

I don't want to offend anyone but it isn't a crime to be hetereosexual or have a more classic gender identification. Only rather irrelevant side-characters seem to be straight in ROM. Bringing in voice actors for the entire (?) game was begging for these question marks to be cleared up I guess. Unless you can find voices that translate into they/them?

No hard feelings, but these details sure can be confusing. English isn't my mother tongue but they/them is a plural form to me and seeing it being used for single persons (or in case of Turing robot) can be irritating and hickup-ishy in written form. I don't know if real people with less defined gender/sexuality identification ever refer to themselves like this?

That is not say I haven't seen this before. There is a character in "Ratings War", a CYOA game, who is constantly they/them. At first I thought the writer had ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up or misused copy & replace or something like that. Took me a while to understand what this was about.

I'm gonna note everything I'm gonna say has only anything to do with gender. Sexuality doesn't have any associated pronouns, simply what you are and aren't sexually interested in.

Okay, so, English has actually used they/them in a singular form of pronoun as early as the 14th century. It's seen a bit of controversy from some (and in your case as a non-native speaker, I can see where it'd be annoying/bothersome - English as a whole is an unfriendly language to learn, with weird and/or poorly-defined rules), but it's rather commonly used to refer to a singular person whose gender may not be defined: Legal documents, on the occasion that they do use pronouns rather than just reiterating who is being referred to, will often use they, because the legal document could theoretically apply to a male, female, or indeed, nonbinary person. It's a safe way to refer to absolutely any human being without having to state their name or reiterate their position as e.g. the defendant, judge, president, plaintiff, applicant, etc.

Additionally, I know quite a few people who do prefer they/them pronouns, because they identify as neither male nor female, and as such he/him, or she/her don't feel comfortable to them, as it's identifying them as something they don't identify as themselves. I personally despite considering myself nonbinary don't really care, but that's just me. I could see where someone with more distinct dysphoria might be bothered by it.

[Ailes]

It's really just confusing from a technical point of view. When...

SPOILERS AHEAD

TOMCAT calls out to me to talk to Turing at Big Blue and constantly refering to him/her as they/them I was actually thinking he was referring to two entities, in this case Turing and Big Blue. Although I've been playing games in English for a very long time and generally prefer any fiction (movies, series) and stuff to be read on the Internet in English too I never claimed to know the language perfect and so I just learned something new. :-)

But I'm not sure if I would refer to myself with these pronouns in real life even if I were to consider myself less straight. People would be irritated, it would probably feel forced as it just doesn't come naturally. Most have referred to each other almost forever as he/she. One could argue that even this could change with time, that people and society can learn to change these norms, but who knows. It is a rather interesting topic at any rate.

[SonarPup]

Originally posted by Sharisad:

It's really just confusing from a technical point of view. When...

SPOILERS AHEAD

TOMCAT calls out to me to talk to Turing at Big Blue and constantly refering to him/her as they/them I was actually thinking he was referring to two entities, in this case Turing and Big Blue. Although I've been playing games in English for a very long time and generally prefer any fiction (movies, series) and stuff to be read on the Internet in English too I never claimed to know the language perfect and so I just learned something new. :-)

But I'm not sure if I would refer to myself with these pronouns in real life even if I were to consider myself less straight. People would be irritated, it would probably feel forced as it just doesn't come naturally. Most have referred to each other almost forever as he/she. One could argue that even this could change with time, that people and society can learn to change these norms, but who knows. It is a rather interesting topic at any rate.

Okay, so I'm gonna point out straight isn't a gender - straight purely means that you're entirely heterosexual. What you want to use there is cisgendered (a word that gets sometimes thrown around in a negative context, but can be useful to distinguish from trans* genders).

Like I said, English *is* sometimes really weird and wonky in some ways. There are rules in English that basically nobody uses properly because it's actually easier to ignore e.g. very few people use whom, and use it in the correct way, except in very specific circumstances "To whom it may concern" for example. But they/them in the singular isn't a very new thing.

Also, some nonbinary people would agree with you, and so you may have actually noticed when you can pick pronouns in the game there's also stuff like ze/zim/zer and some other similar stuff. I won't claim to be super well versed in those, nor do I really like them that much personally, but it IS a solution to that problem, I suppose, and some people do prefer those.

And yeah, it *can* really feel forced, which is a mesh of a lot of different issues, both in language as you describe, and in cultural expectations of gender. It would be interesting to see a change but also unexpected. I agree with the feeling forced, which is why I never ask anyone to use a specific pronoun for me, or use whatever I'm presenting as. But then, again, I get a fairly small amount of dysphoria compared to most, I think. That said, I certainly try to respect others' wishes when I encounter them, but slipups can always happen, and both sides just kinda need to realize that and understand mistakes happen, make the correction if need be, and then move on. Some people get way too hung up on it.

[Ailes]

I wonder if the characters in the game like TOMCAT were addressed from the very beginning by the PC or by Turing as they/them? I remember Turing is called a she by that wheelchair guy. Here one could wonder how people would find out to use the "correct" pronouns. It's artifical and maybe something you wouldn't get to see outside of LGBT communities. I have never seen anything of this in my country in my language, but that won't necessarily mean much because I'm not exactly socializing much with people one way or the other.

[SonarPup]

Well, and also, nonbinary people who are out about it and about caring about pronouns aren't particularly common, except in particularly accepting communities, such as Tumblr, or specific communities for them.

I don't honestly recall when the pronouns get brought up, but IRL it typically is either you ask them, or you use he/she and they correct you (hopefully politely, because how is someone supposed to immediately know? Like I said, that's a cultural thing engrained in people's minds, that if someone looks a specific way they are male/female).

That and nonbinary identities aren't super well accepted still in a lot of places. I'm not out where I live in the conservative south of the US. There's a particularly liberal city just north of me that I would probably be comfortably out in, but as it stands, only a couple close friends here know I'm nonbinary, because I feel like if I were openly out about it I would get ♥♥♥♥ from multiple people I know, including some family members, and it honestly doesn't bother me enough to bother with the fuss right now when I have other stuff going on.

[Ailes]

I suppose it is nice the devs were apparently able do whatever they wanted. I recently played "Leviathan: The Last Day of the Decade" and heard the Russian devs had to be careful with indications of homosexuality in that game because apparently LGBT people/communities have a hard time in Russia.

[SonarPup]

Originally posted by Sharisad:

I suppose it is nice the devs were apparently able do whatever they wanted. I recently played "Leviathan: The Last Day of the Decade" and heard the Russian devs had to be careful with indications of homosexuality in that game because apparently LGBT people/communities have a hard time in Russia.

Russia is extremely homophobic, including IIRC laws that deem it entirely illegal. Most if not all Islamic countries are too. Elsewhere, it can be kinda hit-or-miss. The US is significantly less homophobic than it was even 10 years ago, and transphobia, while still certainly present in some places (look at the states passing or trying to pass bathroom laws for evidence of this), is also less prevalent than it used to be - additionally, there are no longer any standing laws against homosexuality, and it is possible now to legally marry anyone of the same sex in all 50 states, despite some heavy outcry from ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ when that was passed at the national level (including some people at the state level still refusing until they were removed from their positions or relented). I can't speak for most areas of Europe but from what I've been told by British friends, at least there, neither homophobia nor transphobia are too prevalent (though I imagine this depends where in the UK you are).

[Tiglionabbit]

I just assumed TOMCAT was male because a "tom" cat is another way to say a "male" cat. When you first meet TOMCAT, it's in the context that you may have thought Jess was TOMCAT, which I thought was unlikely because Jess is female. However, later you find out that the name TOMCAT used to belong to their sister. So I guess this isn't something to go by after all.

I remember Turing is called a she by that wheelchair guy.

People seem to default to female pronouns for computers IRL quite often. Though, perhaps Fairlight was mistaking Turing for their predecessor, who actively identified as female.