My final word on gamepad support - please implement xinput support

[Medion]

I got to try version 1.04 before my refund went through. I no longer have access to the game, and therefore, won't know if this is fixed in the future. I'm asking that Gung Ho PLEASE implement proper xinput support in Grandia II Anniversary Edition. I'm going to explain, for those who want to keep reading, the difference between DirectInput and xinput, and how proper xinput should work. I'm also going to point out the telltale signs that GH has NOT implemented proper xinput support.

Up to and including DirectX 8 we used DirectInput for gamepad support. With DirectX 9, MS added xinput. DirectInput is far more powerful (supports more axis, more buttons, more customization). However, xinput featured something that DirectInput couldn't - simplicity and consistency.

I'm going to use two examples here, and yes, I know that not everyone here owns either or both of these games; 1) Need for Speed Most Wanted (NFSMW), and 2) Batman: Arkham Asylum.

In NFSMW, you enter the game with your keyboard, you go to settings, you select controls, and then you tell it to switch from keyboard to your designated controller. You then configure that controller. This is how DirectInput works.

In Arkham Asylum, you open the game. It tells you to hit start, so you hit start. You're playing the game. When it's telling you how to perform moves the game is showing you the exact button to hit (yellow Y button, green A button, etc.). This is how xinput works, whether you're using an X360 controller, X-One controller, Logitech F310/710, Razer Sabertooth, or any number of compatible devices.

So, how do you recognize improper or nonexistent xinput support?
1) Does the game ask you to specify your controller? If yes, you're not using xinput (or not using it properly).
2) Does the game fail to work properly with a known working xinput controller? If yes, you're not using xinput (or not using it properly).

Conclusion: xinput is not implemented properly in the current (1.04 version, as of this post) version of Grandia II Anniversary edition. This was acceptable in 2005. Not in 2015. Please implement proper xinput support.

Looking forward to repurchasing this game when the game's many issues are mostly resolved, and I don't have to buy a new gamepad or use 3rd party software to get the game to work.

[keehu]

funny you don't mention what your issue with the controller is in that mess of a post.

[Johnnykey]

Yeaaaah, dude, if it's "plug'n play" with the x360 controller and the analog sticks and such (including triggers) behave like actual smooth analogs, then it's proper Xinput (which is the game's case), period.

Only thing lacking (last time I checked, which was in 1.03) is the camera being able to be rotated with the right analog stick (was in theory implemented in 1.03, but it didn't work for me), and the rest is... Just like how the DC version works with the DC controller. You shouldn't blame the devs or the +10-year old game for not being miraculously up to date on the controls to nowadays' standards.

[Medion]

Originally posted by Johnnykey:

Yeaaaah, dude, if it's "plug'n play" with the x360 controller and the analog sticks and such (including triggers) behave like actual smooth analogs, then it's proper Xinput (which is the game's case), period.

Only thing lacking (last time I checked, which was in 1.03) is the camera being able to be rotated with the right analog stick (was in theory implemented in 1.03, but it didn't work for me), and the rest is... Just like how the DC version works with the DC controller. You shouldn't blame the devs or the +10-year old game for not being miraculously up to date on the controls to nowadays' standards.

This is why developers get away with this. Customers don't realize they're being hoodwinked.

And the funny thing is, it's actually LESS work for the developer to target xinput (the API) than it is to target the X360 gamepad. This mistake just shows their inexperience with the API.

But no, it's not proper xinput support, despite your brief experience with one controller.

[keehu]

Originally posted by Johnnykey:

Yeaaaah, dude, if it's "plug'n play" with the x360 controller and the analog sticks and such (including triggers) behave like actual smooth analogs, then it's proper Xinput (which is the game's case), period.

Only thing lacking (last time I checked, which was in 1.03) is the camera being able to be rotated with the right analog stick (was in theory implemented in 1.03, but it didn't work for me), and the rest is... Just like how the DC version works with the DC controller. You shouldn't blame the devs or the +10-year old game for not being miraculously up to date on the controls to nowadays' standards.

it works if you spend 2 seconds mapping the right analog stick to rotate the camera, but i guess forcing people to use a launcher is too demanding for you kids these days...

OP still hasn't said what his problem with the controllers is.

[Medion]

Originally posted by You N'wah:

OP still hasn't said what his problem with the controllers is.

You're missing the point of the thread.

[Sephrax]

X360 pad works fine.
Camera: left and right bumper
Everything else works too.

[puppeto4]

Using Logitech gamepad F310, didn't had any problem in xinput mode

[Medion]

Originally posted by Sephrax:

X360 pad works fine.
Camera: left and right bumper
Everything else works too.

The game was designed with the X360 pad. You won't have issues with that. It's other Input controllers that have issues because they aren't always detected as X360 gamepads. With proper XInput support, X360 gamepad detection isn't needed and these controllers just work.

[Medion]

Originally posted by My Son Pajeet:

Using Logitech gamepad F310, didn't had any problem in xinput mode

I'm sincerely glad that it works for you. I've heard mixed things on the F310/710/Sabertooth controllers. A proper XInput implementations would remove the issues being experienced by some.

[GungHo America]

It would help to know what kind of controller you have. Most users have reported proper support with their game pads.

[Medion]

Originally posted by GungHo America:

It would help to know what kind of controller you have. Most users have reported proper support with their game pads.

I've sent you requests for this before. What I've gotten back from GungHo shows a lack of fundamental understanding in just how XInput works. I've tested with numerous controllers (Xbox 360, Xbox One, Logitech F310, Logitech F710, Razer Sabertooth, and Nvidia Shield local USB and GameStream). Proper Xinput support means that you don't have to select the gamepad in the settings, and all of the above gamepads work. GungHo makes the user select the gamepad in the settings simply because GungHo doesn't understand basic Xinput implementation. As such, anything outside of the Xbox 360 gamepad, even if Xinput capable, is a gamble (some work, some don't).

Microsoft has a good writeup on the basics and includes some sample code. Please pass this along to the development team:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ee417001(v=vs.85).aspx

The Xbox 360 gamepad has become the most common PC gamepad over the years, so kudos for at least ensuring that works. But had you guys used a proper XInput implementation, it would have worked anyway, and other gamepads as listed above would work.

[keehu]

so what you're saying is, all those controllers worked, but you just can't be bothered to set which one you want to use, correct?

Got it.

[Pundit]

Can't believe the same people who get bent out of shape about a 15 year old game not being 60FPS and Widescreen don't understand the OP's point that controller support in this game is minimalistic at best.

Having you uncheck a box to make the camera not spin incessantly in Windows 10 when using an Xbox One controller is not proper implementation.

Proper Xinput support would pretty much solve every control related issue in the game so far.

[keehu]

The only issue is the windows 10 camera rotation. What other issues are there? That some dude's ultra obscure, cheap ass controller bought at a dollar store doesn't work? shocker.

[GungHo America]

Ah understood. So just to clarify, you weren't experiencing a bug or problem specifically, but rather you wanted to provide feedback regarding the way controller support in general was implemented.

And you are actually able to use some controllers that you own (or rather, you were back when you still owned the game). This is certainly valid feedback, and I'll be sure to pass it along to the team. I can't guarantee any updates based on this, but we'll certainly keep everyone informed.