Leaders spawning near my keeper... Ruins game.

[Lt. Hawkeye]

Hi All,
First, I really like the game. I am also still new to the game but have a solid grasp of the basic mechanics at this point. I want to get that out of the way early.

However, there's one aspect that keeps ending my runs and I can't seem to properly defend against it. After building up my base and venturing out to raid, I inevitably aggro one of the other factions in the game, as would be expected. The problem is, instead of the enemy team walking up to my base and attacking like you'd expect.... The game seems to teleport the enemy with X tiles of my Keeper unit... Even if those tiles were solid rock the turn before.

This has happened to me twice now with the enemy cyclops. On my last run I even planned my entire run around this issue, dug my dungeon real deep into the side of a mountain and made a labyrinth of traps and barriers as my entrance. I even completely segregated my Keepers "bedroom" from the entire dungeon, encased it in reinforced walls and set it like 6 blocks away from everything else...

Still, I get the pop up I'm being attacked and magically the cyclops has popped up right next to the keepers room behind all of my defenses. In a square that was previously hard rock. WILD.

Is he burrowing in there? I don't see any stairs where he could have come up/down into my dungeon... Even if he is, why is the logic programmed so he spawns basically on top of the only unit I'm trying to keep alive?

Very frustrating to spend hours planning and building only to have an enemy completely disregard all of that and kill my keeper before my troops can even get to him.

/rant

[Vile-Mallow]

I have noticed some odd behavior , I think the NPC's will take the most direct route to get to your keeper and don't mind tunneling through walls. I did the same thing but I built a snake zig zag line of hallways to trap and the raiders just ignored the front door and started to chew through the side of the mountain to get to my keeper. Thankfully on my current game I was able to take that path and trap the living hell out of it with boulder blast, web and gas traps and that seems to have worked.

What I can't figure out , is how do I chew through the walls when attacking, when controlling my forces, I can attack and cast spells but to dig, a wall might as well be made of Godesium because I can't figure out how to dig while attacking.

[Chakul]

If you trigger an enemy, there's going to be a notification on the bottom of your map that you pissed them off. You can hover over it to see what it was you did that triggered them. Depending on what it was you did, some offenses can simply be canceled, like downsizing your number of units or getting rid of however much wealth you have to in order to cancel their aggro.

Mind you, this property of the game only holds true if you haven't already engaged these enemies. Once you engage them, other triggers may develop over the course of fighting, preventing them from leaving you alone even if you change the primary trigger values that initially brought them to your door step.

Enemies that are triggered by your killing sprees may not forgive you so easily, tho.



Whatever the case, there's going to be a period of time before they arrive on your map.

The moment when that villain arrives on your map, and their A.I. determines that there is no valid route in order to reach your Keeper, then the game may simply spawn them beside your Keeper and end you for breaking this unspoken law.

But, if the A.I. determines that there is a valid path, then they'll spawn at the edge of the map, providing that there is enough room for them to do so. Again, if there is not enough room for this villain, and/or all of their units, then they can simply appear inside spaces where they shouldn't.

Again, if you don't have a physical path from the edge of the map to your Keeper, then the game basically says you're cheating, and so it cheats, too.



On the other hand, there are occasions when you may have a valid path and it turns out to be too complicated for the A.I. to judge as "valid". This is generally very rare, but it can happen. In this case, the same effect will happen as mentioned above.

If, however, there is a valid path when a triggered villain arrives on your map, then they may spawn at the edge of the map as they normally should. Only when this happens, then can you close off those paths to prevent them from reaching you.

However, if they can't reach you, then they'll just remain idle on your map until such time as an opening appears.

Usually, if you're dealing with an early game cyclops, these enemies cannot mine through walls. So, you will be fine. But, they're not going anywhere now that they've arrived.

In contrast, villains, like Knights, may bring multiple units with them. Some of these units may have a mining trait, making it possible for them to burrow through your walls. Despite this, if the primary entity's A.I. fails to find a valid path the moment they arrive on your map, they may simply show up beside your Keeper anyway, regardless of whether or not they had their own means to reach you.



If you decide that deleting your stair cases will save you, think again. If the game thinks that you're cheating, then the game will also cheat in response.

[Chakul]

Originally posted by Vile-Mallow:

What I can't figure out , is how do I chew through the walls when attacking, when controlling my forces, I can attack and cast spells but to dig, a wall might as well be made of Godesium because I can't figure out how to dig while attacking.

Unfortunately, you, yourself, cannot tunnel through walls on enemy maps. Even if you are in control of a unit possessing the Mining trait, you are not allowed to damage the walls of an enemy's map.

[di eshor ribly]

Originally posted by Chakul:

Originally posted by Vile-Mallow:

What I can't figure out , is how do I chew through the walls when attacking, when controlling my forces, I can attack and cast spells but to dig, a wall might as well be made of Godesium because I can't figure out how to dig while attacking.

Unfortunately, you, yourself, cannot tunnel through walls on enemy maps. Even if you are in control of a unit possessing the Mining trait, you are not allowed to damage the walls of an enemy's map.

Except for wooden walls, they're pretty flammable you know. Bring a wizard, dragon, or some torches to throw and you can kiss wooden walls (and the surrounding forest) goodbye.

Unfortunately, you are somewhat incorrect about wild cyclops not being able to dig through walls. They can bash through wooden and reinforced natural stone walls, it's the green Stone Walls that are virtually indestructible.
You may also notice this behavior sometimes when you're fighting in a crowded tunnel, and then the cyclops cuts out a new tunnel to reach you mid combat. Other enemies will also cut through solid rock to fight or flee, it just depends if their pathfinding ai tries to go through that tile or not. Even non-miners can bend the rules like that.

[Chakul]

Originally posted by di eshor ribly:

Originally posted by Chakul:

Unfortunately, you, yourself, cannot tunnel through walls on enemy maps. Even if you are in control of a unit possessing the Mining trait, you are not allowed to damage the walls of an enemy's map.

Except for wooden walls, they're pretty flammable you know. Bring a wizard, dragon, or some torches to throw and you can kiss wooden walls (and the surrounding forest) goodbye.

Unfortunately, you are somewhat incorrect about wild cyclops not being able to dig through walls. They can bash through wooden and reinforced natural stone walls, it's the green Stone Walls that are virtually indestructible.
You may also notice this behavior sometimes when you're fighting in a crowded tunnel, and then the cyclops cuts out a new tunnel to reach you mid combat. Other enemies will also cut through solid rock to fight or flee, it just depends if their pathfinding ai tries to go through that tile or not. Even non-miners can bend the rules like that.

I see. That's all very good info. I'll have to look further into each of these points later on. The notes about the fire and wood, I knew, but I don't tend to find this property very practical. It's certainly entertaining.

I don't often find wooden structures in the game, though. So, taking advantage of this property seems to be more of a minor detail than a functional one. Most structures, to my knowledge, tend to be made of stone or the like, generally being non-flammable. And, I don't generally carry torches in my party, since the advantage of using them for light is somewhat abysmal in a cramped cave or tunnel system, where much of the game seems to take place.


Concerning the walls, I wasn't very sure that I could say that mobs would break through them or not. But I knew for a fact that any mob listed with a mining trait would and could break through them. That's why I said what I said. Where the cyclops is concerned, I've rarely had issues encountering them, and can't say that I've ever seen them tear down any of my walls. But, if they can tear down walls, then that'll be something I'll need to consider for the future.

What you've said does make sense, though, and supports observations I've been trying to verify in my sessions. Thank you for the clarifications.

[The Grand Mugwump]

All invaders are given the can build bridges and destroy walls traits, which prevents them from being locked out of a sealed dungeon. The reasons they are appearing several tiles away from your keeper are:
1. You're not assigning leisure/guard areas in areas where you want your minions to keep watch for intruders. The game will not tell you a villain is attacking until one of your units sees it.
2. They don't have an open path to your keeper. If you have doors, they will try to bash through those. If you are surrounded by solid walls or block hallways with barricades, they will dig the most direct path to your keeper, which can cause the "villain leaps out of a solid stone wall at you" surprise.

[Vile-Mallow]

Originally posted by Chakul:

Originally posted by Vile-Mallow:

What I can't figure out , is how do I chew through the walls when attacking, when controlling my forces, I can attack and cast spells but to dig, a wall might as well be made of Godesium because I can't figure out how to dig while attacking.

Unfortunately, you, yourself, cannot tunnel through walls on enemy maps. Even if you are in control of a unit possessing the Mining trait, you are not allowed to damage the walls of an enemy's map.

That sucks then, because another players keep showed up on my map and they clearly used portals to isolate their base, but by the time I got to it the portals are gone and I can't do anything to win. Kind of a clever troll, but sucks for my game

[The Grand Mugwump]

You could try the audience scroll if you can find one or two of them. It hasn't worked for me when I use it against procedurally generated enemies, but maybe it will work against player bases. Supposedly it summons all defenders to your location, but all it does is summon my own soldiers to me when I use it in procedurally generated areas.