As A DwarfFortress Vet Is this worth it?

[A Bull Moose]

I ask this because I've noticed the general review to boil down into "you'll like this if you like dungeon keeper and dwarf fortress" or "this is similar to dwarf fortress but accessible and easier to pick up"

As someone who's already sold a portion of his life to grappling and learning Dwarf Fortress is this worth delving into? I'm intrigued by the Dungeon Keeper aspect which I've never been able to pick up.

(I have a weird tolerance for graphics, for some reason I'm completely fine with Tile graphics but anything PS1 style polygons and pixel fuzzy is a turn off so I could never get into Dungeon Keeper despite the stellar reviews of the original.)

So this of course caught my eye since it seems the best of both worlds for me.

TL:DR
How deep are the game mechanics?

Is it similarly in depth to dwarf fortress?

Can I tame wild animals and turn them into defenses or attack animals?

How big are the unit rosters? Since my biggest draw to dwarf fortress was the variety of units and animals I can wrangle.

Thanks for your time lads, I appreciate any and all responses.

[rudew]

This game is nowhere near the depth of dwarf fortress, as a quick and definitely not all encompassing example, training is essentially just an experience system which gives you a +1 to your stats in KeeperRL, where as obviously in DF theres... A million things to train which all have both obvious and niche effects, as you'd, well. Know. That's not to say KeeperRL doesn't have depth, it has a fair enough amount, but its pretty hard to compare any games depth other than things like Aurora 4x or CDDA or the likes to DF.

Overall honestly I've never understood the reviews comparing it to Dwarf Fortess; It has a few similar design choices, but its not really all that similar beyond a surface level. Rimworld is definitely more similar to Dwarf Fortress than KeeperRL is to Dwarf Fortress, and everyone in both of those communities for some reason insist they're nothing alike.

You can tame wild animals though, the system to tame them is the same as recruiting any other unit that you don't have within your normal roster, which is imprisonment and then conversion. The unit roster on the other hand is fairly sizeable, you're unlikely to see every single unit variety or type in a single game (Because KeeperRL does in fact have a victory condition), and a single game will generally last around 4-8 hours.)

It's pretty replayable, but definitely not the width of units you find in DF. It's not trying to be to that width or depth though, it's a fairly simple little game.

[Pure Psycho]

As someone who has been playing DF on-and-off for ~15 years. I would say the comparisons to DF are mostly aesthetic.

Its more of a Dungeon Keeper Roguelike, and what it does it does well. For the price I have a hard time not recommending.

DF is a Universe Simulator masquerading as a game. It has an absurd amount of depth to just about everything, but not much to actually do outside of your own goals.

KeeperRL is the opposite, it's a game with a specific win-condition and while it has plenty of variety in it's toolbox, those tools are still all specialized for achieving that win. That is to say--there really isn't much depth or choice, just variations on the core concept.

It also has a neat mechanic of being able to "retire" a winning dungeon and post it to the workshop so other players can add it to their games as a "Villian" to play against. That has a lot of potential for adding more fun, it also seems to be fairly easy to mod as well so there is potential there as well.

Biggest criticism is that KeeperRL is kind of bland in spite of itself. It has a lot of little mechanics that are interesting and have a lot of potential for adding depth, but they end up being overshadowed by the over-simplification of it's combat system. Everything just boils down to DMG and DEF and bigger number is best usually. The weird thing though is that it really doesn't have to be the way, the foundations for more complexity are already there, they just aren't being fully utilized.

Originally posted by Cope Seethe Mald:

I
How deep are the game mechanics?

A. -->Not overly deep, but they serve their own purpose well enough (variety more than depth)

Is it similarly in depth to dwarf fortress?

A. -->Not at all

Can I tame wild animals and turn them into defenses or attack animals?

A. -->Actually yes, but it's much simpler. There isn't a whole production chain like DF. You can capture any enemy as a prisoner and then torture them for a 50/50 chance of them joining or dying. Certain creatures can use mounts and certain animals can be mounts, so you can have dragon riders and such, or goblin wolf-riders etc.

How big are the unit rosters? Since my biggest draw to dwarf fortress was the variety of units and animals I can wrangle.

A. -->Plenty of variety, but again not a huge amount of depth. Read my last paragraph for more details==

Thanks for your time lads, I appreciate any and all responses.

[A Bull Moose]

I appreciate the replies, so If I were to get the gist here KeeperRL is more akin to a sessions match that can go on slightly long but ultimately is almost like Against The Storm in that you shouldn't get completely attached to your fort since win or lose it's gone by a certain time limit, where as DF and rimworld go on indefinitely.

There wouldn't happen to be any mods you's are aware of that would extend the end game? While it doesn't need to be eternal sandbox, 8-9 hour playthroughs are a little shorter than I was hoping for. Even if it's just a mode that turns it into a wave survival after a certain point with a difficulty scale that eventually conquers you, at least then I could have a sort of goal between matches since I couldn't care less about hi-scores or difficulty imposed time limits, where as a "See how long you can last" is at least a bit more fun than just a blanket win condition of "kill the ruler" before X time.

Reason I ask is because when I was looking at the over world map on the store page it gave me Rimworld vibes of sending caravan's out to RNG events. Which is something I enjoy. Couple it with taming animals for war and such I could see myself really enjoying the game if it was just slightly longer, say 15-20 hour playthroughs if possible.

[Pure Psycho]

Originally posted by Cope Seethe Mald:

I appreciate the replies, so If I were to get the gist here KeeperRL is more akin to a sessions match that can go on slightly long but ultimately is almost like Against The Storm in that you shouldn't get completely attached to your fort since win or lose it's gone by a certain time limit, where as DF and rimworld go on indefinitely.

There wouldn't happen to be any mods you's are aware of that would extend the end game? While it doesn't need to be eternal sandbox, 8-9 hour playthroughs are a little shorter than I was hoping for. Even if it's just a mode that turns it into a wave survival after a certain point with a difficulty scale that eventually conquers you, at least then I could have a sort of goal between matches since I couldn't care less about hi-scores or difficulty imposed time limits, where as a "See how long you can last" is at least a bit more fun than just a blanket win condition of "kill the ruler" before X time.

Reason I ask is because when I was looking at the over world map on the store page it gave me Rimworld vibes of sending caravan's out to RNG events. Which is something I enjoy. Couple it with taming animals for war and such I could see myself really enjoying the game if it was just slightly longer, say 15-20 hour playthroughs if possible.

Yeah, there is an "endless wave" mode that can be toggled on/off when starting a new run. It can also be set to trigger right from the start, or to only trigger after you've conquered the map and won. Plus your minions do gain exp so they stay viable through a whole game if you are using them. The scaling is a bit off so you need to do a bit of micro to make sure they don't fall behind, but its tied with how the core gameplay works anyways so you just need to be aware more than actively managing 24/7 if that makes sense.

And the main campaign is reactive rather than time-based so if you are keeping your head down while slowly building your dungeon you will stay off the other villains radar for the most part.

[A Bull Moose]

Originally posted by Pure Psycho:

Yeah, there is an "endless wave" mode that can be toggled on/off when starting a new run.

Awesome, that'll do.

I appreciate the info guys. Cheers.

[Wlerin]

It takes vastly less forward planning than DF, which is probably why I'm still playing it despite every other thought about the game being "I wish it had X feature from DF" lol.

[A Bull Moose]

Originally posted by Wlerin:

It takes vastly less forward planning than DF, which is probably why I'm still playing it despite every other thought about the game being "I wish it had X feature from DF" lol.

I get that, just playing with heavy aquifers can be a headache in DF, let alone the thousands forms of FUN! that await beyond that. Besides, less features often means more polish so I could imagine what this game does offer is at least more refined and enjoyable considering it isn't so spread out work wise.

Like said, I appreciate all of your inputs lads. Cheers!