Disappointed with the tutorial and no desire to start over

[Kírby]

4 orcs in a group. In leader mode the others run after you ... but you stop at the village - miles away - well 15 boxes.

Okay, so walked back and everyone was driving. 1 dog 2 donkeys 3 farmers.

1st round - All orcs move towards the opponent.

Duration lands critical hits - dog bites, donkey kicks and lands critical hits - orc is dead.

From then on the fight was also lost, which is probably not provided in the tutorial, because new orcs do not appear.

And that's the point where I think to myself - nope, that's so stupid, just to continue the tutorial again. How do you come up with something so stupid? A tutorial on what can fail and then should I spend the time doing all the basics again?



If you go back in the tutorial I can go back to the point where I should recruit 4 orcs - it never goes on.

Then I can go back to the point where an orc is supposed to come, but again nothing happens.

It's an alpha ... but a tutorial that's so broken shouldn't happen at all.

Where is the problem to integrate the following logic?

Tutorial message starts: Check: 1 orc available? No - Orc is loading.

The same with the 4 orcs.

Why isn't that integrated?

Just something easy to integrate.
If the first field on which I dig no mountain, then a mountain is not dug.

Why do I have to be careful not to dig up the mountain while marking the trees on the mountain? With speed 4 it can happen that something is destroyed.

So far after 10 minutes of play.

Or removing a storage.

With Shift I can quickly draw large areas, but can I only delete them field by field ?!

No game has disappointed me so quickly for a long time.

And the tutorial window is so big that it covers far too much. Just when I should attack the village below left ...

Why can't I make it smaller?

PS.:
But I'm also very critical of something like that. For example, I find Rimworld by Tyrant Silvester a pretty bad game in a lot of small game mechanics. Quite miserable even and it would never have been such a big game without the mods.

Many developers take care of general and big things, but hardly anyone cares about the flow of the game, simplicity and comfort - although that was different in the case of examples and exactly the point I liked about it.

Nevertheless, I want to say that I know that I place higher demands here than the general average

......

I've tried it again ...

This time there were 3 farmers in 2 houses.

Why did they gather in front of the village beforehand?

The orcs have now also remained in the group.

But why do I have to click each time to pick it up?
A button for this would come in handy.

Also a shortcut for trenches and tree falls ...

Those would be things that I would do immediately. I mean I don't program - make up board and card games in real life.

But I just can't understand it.

Why not do something that is so repetitive that it saves a lot of time in the long run ?!

[Michal Brzozowski]

Thanks for the feedback. I'll make sure the tutorial can't be broken by getting all the orcs killed. Regarding removing large areas, you can use Ctrl to do that.

You are totally right that as a developer it's hard to pay attention to all the little annoyances, it's something that I want to improve on. The more important that I get feedback like yours.

[Kírby]

Originally posted by Michal Brzozowski:

Thanks for the feedback. I'll make sure the tutorial can't be broken by getting all the orcs killed. Regarding removing large areas, you can use Ctrl to do that.

You are totally right that as a developer it's hard to pay attention to all the little annoyances, it's something that I want to improve on. The more important that I get feedback like yours.

Thank you very much Michal.

I hope the tone wasn't too harsh.

I mean it really neutral as criticism that only annoys me personally.

Is there a roadmap?

And do you have support? How many people are you?

I hope Corona gives you more time than it has disadvantages. And stay healthy

best regards

[GameDungeon]

@Kírby KeeperRL has a github (https://github.com/miki151/keeperrl), most of the issues are future featues or bug reports, also check out the discord (https://discordapp.com/invite/XZfCCs5), were michal is active a lot and there is a others that love this game and will help.

[LeftPaw]

Still don't know what i'm doing after my 12th start. All the tutorials I can find on youtube don't give you the basics or are plain bad. I wish the game tutorial was more in depth. It only takes you through the first few things then drops you.

[Vitowns]

Can we skip tutorial?

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by WetNose:

Still don't know what i'm doing after my 12th start. All the tutorials I can find on youtube don't give you the basics or are plain bad. I wish the game tutorial was more in depth. It only takes you through the first few things then drops you.

I recommend watching some of admittedly few Youtube "Let's Plays" for KeeperRL.

Splattercat, who specializes in Indie games, has done a few few-parter vids for KeeperRL and revisits it occasionally when new patches come out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CxEn0rjBOk

Aavak has done several as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SZuwqncAQs

FallenShogun has a pretty long series for it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbVi9SeBH2Q&list=PLi9_tXwdXOlifmYQgP5fLxd-O2a4PMMuR

I usually go straight to Youtube for "Let's Plays" for any game I'm considering for purchase. I think it was a combination of Aavak and Splattercat and a follow-up with FallenShogun that convinced me to buy KeeperRL. Afterwards, I continued to watch for Let's Plays from those YT'ers.

For myself, after the tutorial and after a few minutes of gameplay, armed with knowledge from watching some Let's Plays, the rest of the game's mechanics were fairly easily assimilated. The one that was the most confusing was the inability to re-attempt the "Tower Puzzle" (disappointing more than confusing, I suppose) and a few bits of combat abilities/tactics.

One thing to note: If you don't pause and micromanage combat things can quickly get out of hand and very dangerous. :) Combat encounters progress very quickly and the CPU has a pretty big advantage... That means, at least to me, that pausing combat and making choices during the resulting calm is the most satisfying way to progress the gameplay for me.

KeeperRL is a real "gem" of a game. It's simple, but complex enough to scratch that itch if needed. It has enough challenge to not be "formulaic" but has just enough "strategic and tactical necessities" to allow the player some satisfaction in "planning." Organized chaos with a dash of occasional uncertainty up to a point...

[QUZŞEWITİ]

sa

[LeftPaw]

I am a bit confused even after watching hours of vids. When you have cleared out the map your on I found you can travel to other parts of the large map. But what are you suppose to do there? I don't seem to be able to take my imps so I can't start up on other maps. I don't get it.

[di eshor ribly]

Originally posted by WetNose:

I am a bit confused even after watching hours of vids. When you have cleared out the map your on I found you can travel to other parts of the large map. But what are you suppose to do there? I don't seem to be able to take my imps so I can't start up on other maps. I don't get it.

You take your soldier units and kill everything on the other map. You can only build and develop on the map you started on (or dug down to with stairs).

[LeftPaw]

Originally posted by di eshor ribly:

Originally posted by WetNose:

I am a bit confused even after watching hours of vids. When you have cleared out the map your on I found you can travel to other parts of the large map. But what are you suppose to do there? I don't seem to be able to take my imps so I can't start up on other maps. I don't get it.

You take your soldier units and kill everything on the other map. You can only build and develop on the map you started on (or dug down to with stairs).

Ah. That's a little disappointing. I was hoping you could set up house on each part of the map. So it's basically just raids?

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by WetNose:

Originally posted by di eshor ribly:

You take your soldier units and kill everything on the other map. You can only build and develop on the map you started on (or dug down to with stairs).

Ah. That's a little disappointing. I was hoping you could set up house on each part of the map. So it's basically just raids?

It's really not bad at all. You can dig "down" in your region and can uncover all sorts of more difficult enemies, most with their own little bits of "territory" and dungeons... (Very tough enemies if you're not prepared and haven't yet explored other regions to get the experience/gear you need.) To have that possible on every map would be a bit over-kill and that'd likely be the expected result by players if they could build on other maps.

Your activities will basically be exploring other maps, once your first top-level is cleared, and finding enemies on them to fight. Most will have extensive fortifications/dungeons of their own. Some will have collections of villages, maybe even a castle. You'll defeat them, kill them off, capture them and bring them back to convince them to join you, loot everything, etc...

There are enough maps to make this entertaining with varied experiences and enough different enemies so that no one tactic is always the best to use. Add in variations with dungeons/etc it's all fairly decent in terms of gameplay activity.

Enemies will, however, take notice and they may decide to send assaults against you. They'll keep doing that, too, if sufficiently upset about how dangerous you are. Those can certainly not all be handled the same way and some are pretty nasty, meaning you'll eventually want to send out your own assault force to wipe them off the map.

Eventually, you'll want to "Dig too greedily and too deep" in your own map space. I think that's best done after one has cleared the enemies above ground and in shallow dungeons in other maps. Having the chance of a nasty Raid hitting while your so occupied below would be kind of nasty. :)