Sigma version?

[svartvibes]

Can someone explain why everyone hates the sigma version? As I understand it, there was no dismemberment there, but here it is. Why is this remake being compared to it in that case? I just played it and I like literally every aspect of the game

[Chad Radish]

To give a mildly complete answer, the differences are MANY. Most fans (myself included) consider Sigma 2 a vast downgrade. I'll be referring to the original vanilla release of NG2 as OG to avoid typing vanilla over and over. I'll start with the most important changes highest.

OG2 threw enemies at you. It SPAMMED enemies at you. I mean by the dozens. I mean more than the hardware could sometimes even handle. The encounters were pure chaos. Sigma 2 throws only 5 guys at you most of the time, maybe 7. This is to me the biggest change and is so big in fact I refuse to consider Sigma 2 the same game. So far the remaster seems to have maybe slightly more than the Sigma 2 enemy count but not even a third of the OG enemy count.

All blood and gore from OG has been taken out and replaced with pink fog in Sigma 2. It's terrible and the most immediately noticeable downgrade. Enemy corpses are also no longer persistent, a big appeal of OG2 was seeing the immense piles of limbs and having the floors and walls just covered in blood after you were done, there was always a big before-and-after of what the environment looked like during a fight, you'd have this pretty environment before a fight and after it looks like a crazy horror movie. Luckily this has returned in the remaster.

Enemies in OG2 died FAST. Almost instantly to be honest. It took little effort with the good weapons to hack them down. The game had to be designed this way because you could fight straight up Dynasty Warriors amounts of enemies. In Sigma 2 the enemies are a lot more tanky with HP more like what you'd expect from a miniboss, sometimes common enemies can even survive UTs. The remake so far SEEMS to have a halfway point between the two games, enemies die faster than Sigma but not nearly instantly like OG.

In OG2 you gained currency you could freely buy weapon upgrades with. In Sigma 2 they took this out and you could only upgrade weapons one at a time at extremely rare checkpoints. This obviously sucks and keeps you from being able to experiment with weapons, forcing you to really pick just one or two to use for the entire game. The remake has brought back the much superior original upgrade system allowing you to upgrade your weapons faster and experiment around more.

OG2 is much more difficult, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. The enemy AI is insanely aggressive and the common mooks try a lot harder to kill you, the moment-to-moment combat is a lot faster. It's a personal preference thing for most people, but on higher difficulties enemies in OG2 literally do not ever stop throwing unblockable projectiles at you from off screen. In Sigma 2 they don't do this. Other changes to annoying and badly made bosses and segments in Sigma 2 are actually huge improvements though, there's some gimmicky and awful parts in OG2 that were improved upon pretty well. Some terrible bosses were removed or redesigned. A terrible chapter is mostly replaced (for the better).

Sigma 2 (and this remake) adds segments where you play as other characters. you could see this as a fun bonus or as breaking the pace of the original main campaign, I personally like it.

[Daikatan]

I'm puzzled why people consider one better/worse version of other, instead of treating it like two alternatives with upsides/downsides each.

Just we do in shmup community with stuff like DoDonPachi, Mushihimesama, Ibara etc.

[ingueferroque]

Sigma has less gore and enemies (on screen), and is generally a bit easier. It also has more content.

Both the original and Sigma versions are still great games - I think people just like to say Sigma is terrible because somehow that got into the zeitgeist - it really isn't.

Since the originals aren't on Steam, the Sigma trilogy is a great deal and comes with a ton of content.

[Shirakani]

Not everything about Sigma 2 is bad. A lot of the hate is from people who simply prefer one version over the other, but Itagaki tier garbage design like throwing unblockable projectiles from offscreen is just flat out not fun. That's just garbage design.

A lot of people also harp on about the DW tier enemy count... If you want that, I say go play DW. NG doesn't need to copy DW, it has its own identity. I much preferred the tankier enemies as you could practice some insanely long combos on them which IMO is more fun... but here is where it really is just preference vs preference. It does not make either side 'right'.

A lot of crying is pretty much like the FF7 fanbase, one of the most toxic fanbases to ever exist... and the crying is from the equivalent of those who will never shut up about turn based combat ie the ones who will never ever get what they want, ever.

If anything, this remake is probably the golden standard as it seems to be a decent halfway 'meet both sides in the middle' while not overly pissing off one side and also just flat out discarding Itagaki's failures outright.

Win/win to me.

The ones who are going to hate will continue to hate. There's a game for them, it's called NG2 original on x360 and they can go right back there.

[Mikoto]

I seriously doubt anyone who says "NG2 had Dynasty Warriors enemy count" because I played it at launch. I played it for 2 years straight and was practically a pro at the game. That is just straight up NOT true in the slightest lol.

[Shirakani]

You get my point... I was mostly talking about those who keep on harping on enemy count like it's a good thing. It isn't.

[Daikatan]

If you want that, I say go play DW.

Those games didn't have aggressive enemies since SW2 days though?

Though to be fair, NG series was among the few with such aggression of enemies - in Devil May Cry, Dark Souls etc. they are more passive in comparison (though still a threat).

[Daikatan]

just preference vs preference.

I believe, there are two "schools" or "approaches" in action games like this.

First one, like in Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, God Hand etc. is "stylish". In those games focus more on doing all sort of crazy/cool combos, so enemies tend to have more health and you get to use whatever you have in your sleeve for fun.

But here is another one, to which I'd account (most) Ninja Gaiden games, and something like Shinobi/Nightshade. The vibe and playstyle is different, and focus in those games is about killing enemies as fast and tight as possible, using what's best for situation.

Granted, you can act in both ways in games from both camps, but the root is that imho.

[Morbis]

Originally posted by Daikatan:

I'm puzzled why people consider one better/worse version of other, instead of treating it like two alternatives with upsides/downsides each.

Just we do in shmup community with stuff like DoDonPachi, Mushihimesama, Ibara etc.

Because there are no actual upsides to Sigma that matters lol
It's pretty much a completely different game in how it plays, and not for the better.
Fine on its own, but not compared to the OG 2.

[Joey Asagiri]

Originally posted by Daikatan:

I'm puzzled why people consider one better/worse version of other, instead of treating it like two alternatives with upsides/downsides each.

Just we do in shmup community with stuff like DoDonPachi, Mushihimesama, Ibara etc.

This would be fine if both versions are actually available to play for everyone, but it isn't. The original version of Ninja Gaiden 2 is stuck on xbox 360 and every other port is based on Sigma 2.

This then gets worsened with black here because they say "We’ve meticulously incorporated some of the additions of NINJA GAIDEN Sigma 2 while staying true to the challenge and feel of the original 360 version" which is just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, because it's still just Sigma 2 at it's core, not the original 360 version. According to Team Ninja, this is the definitive version of the game and they don't want you to play the actual original game.

[Shirakani]

Originally posted by Joey Asagiri:

they don't want you to play the actual original game.

Completely untrue. They no longer have the source code for the original and this was stated many, many times in interviews. The original sauce is lost... Sigma 2 is the ONLY base they have, so what are they going to do? Naturally they will use it.

This is also why I say anyone expecting OG NG2 won't ever get what they want. Unless you can magically decompile the 360 game and then give it to Team Ninja, yeah, you'll never ever get what you want.

[SilverCuppedRamen]

Both versions are good. Most people that hate on the sigma versions forget that the og versions had a lot of issues as well. If you haven't played the originals, just try the available versions and make up your own mind whether you like the gameplay or not.

Cheers, and have a lovely day.