This is the worst worms game ever made

[Moonvalley]

How do you developers keep making each game worse and worse. All you had to do was take Armageddon, refine the gameplay over the last 20 years and you could have had a fine tuned, complete game. But no..you had to try new things every new game and guess what, you failed and failed HARD. Last worms game i am ever buying.

[```skunk3```]

One of the main problems when it comes to comparing one Worms title to another is that players are typically going to exhibit a bias towards whatever game they started with - i.e. the first Worms game that they played online and took even somewhat seriously. There's loads of people out there who still think that Worms Reloaded is the best title in the series, and not to veer off into the realm of entropic subjectivity, IMO anyone who compares a game like W:A (with the current updates) to Reloaded would be able to easily ascertain that W:A is superior in every single way perhaps aside from simple aesthetics.

WMD was marketed as a "spiritual successor" to W:A, which was a blunder on Team17's part considering the fact that they exhibit time and time again that they don't understand WHY W:A fanboys are fanboys, or why even more casual Worms players still remember W:A as the best. I own all of the Worms titles aside from random ones here and there released on portables and whatnot and have spent many hundreds of hours playing each of them and to me it is painfully clear by this point that Team17 devs assume that all Worms players are casuals who just want to chuck bananas at each other and have mindless fun.

The problem with this thinking is quite simple: Would W:A still be alive today after nearly 20 years if the game was simplistic and lacking in depth? Of course not. Players would have given up on it years ago. I won't get into my personal reasons as to why W:A is great because I've covered that dozens of times in this forum, but suffice it to say that I completely agree with Obn3g0n. Worms needs to be as 'sandbox' as possible. Yeah, it might overwhelm new players and it might be confusing for a while. It might also not be quite as easy to translate to consoles, and heaven forbid anything stand in the way of developers easily porting titles to all platforms because we all know that at the end of the day they care about profits first and quality/longevity second!

WMD is actually quite simplified. I am not necessarily talking about gameplay itself, but more in terms of the overall experience... breadth and depth of options, quality of UI, online chat/hosting, random map generator, lack of in-game paint tools to customize maps on the spot, etc. The list goes on and on. I will concede that many of the greatest aspects of W:A were added after CyberShadow and Deadcode took over maintenance, but still... Team17 should at the very least be AWARE of the various features that W:A now has and strive to match them, if not improve upon what has already been done. I've been saying this from day one, and not just with WMD... with the past several titles. Making a hit Worms game isn't really that hard conceptually as long as you are willing to listen to the community and invest the time and resources into making it. I personally believe that Team17 doesn't really care about making the best possible Worms title.

For people reading this and rolling their eyes at me, I know that I repeat myself a lot and I am sorry about that but I cling to a shred of hope that maybe, perhaps, one day Team17 will finally pull their heads out of the collective derrieres and wake up. Trust me when I say that Team17 isn't unaware of what veteran Worm players would like to see from WMD and any other future Worms titles. I've been basically spamming this discussion board since pre-order times and I was also extremely active on the discussion boards for the other games that launched on Steam as well. Unless the community managers are neglecting to pass along communication to the dev team, they are well aware of what people want. With Worms titles there is no such thing as too much customization, too many options, etc. One of the biggest problems with WMD is the LACK OF customization and options. The base game itself showed promise but lots of factors ruined the overall experience, most notably:

1. A serious lack of customization and overall game options

2. Releasing the game on damn near every platform there is with basically no cross-play, which leads to smaller player populations, which snowballs into even smaller player populations because players will lose interest if the online gets too slow or they think the game is dying

3. A failure to incorporate basic and vital functions, such as a global chat lobby (which didn't get added to the game until months after launch, and was only added - in a very shoddy and threadbare style - after individuals such as myself and others complained about it) and many, many other things

4. Lack of extensive beta testing (or any beta testing whatsoever) which resulted in lots of day-one issues and complaints regarding balancing, gameplay, etc.

5. Pre-order DLC fiasco

et al.


Since posting to these forums clearly isn't the best way to reach the devs and actually drive points home, I think that some dedicated Wormers should put together a Powerpoint presentation or something - along with video clips and other media - and present it directly to Team17 so that they can understand the best aspects of ALL OF their Worms titles, not just W:A. There'd be no excuses for cutting corners or being ignorant of something.

[Woshee]

The people below are gay
THREAD LOCKED

[Acquired Violence]

Yes, I'm very gay.

[Obn3g0n]

Not gay so I can respond..

引用自 Beatrice：

Note: I cut out some points because some of them I agree with, and some are just subjective and thus I have no reason to argue against. Because you shouldn't argue against subjectivity with subjectivity.

引用自 Obn3g0n：

To everyone who says "if you wanted this game to be exactly like Armageddon, just go play Armageddon":

The people who wanted this game to be more like Armageddon didn't just want a 100% remake clone. We wanted them to start with what made Armageddon great including the same physics, all its features and options, and add to it. That way the player would be able to set the balance to their liking. There are still a lot of potential improvements that could be made to WA or a new game.

W.M.D is pretty much like that already. Armageddon fanboys just won't be pleased no matter what. Especially since they explicitely said they just wanted Armageddon (OP is an example of that). Keep in mind that Armageddon is my favorite in the series too.

Not true. They bungled the physics, worm animations, collision masks, jumps, and the depth of options is tiny in comparison. Armageddon players could be pleased but you're right that it would take a lot. Why make a new game at all if you can't surpass a game that's almost 20 years old?

引用自 Beatrice：

If you ask any casual observer, they'll tell you every Worms game is the exact same, just with better graphics in the new titles, and they'll ask for something new like 5d hats or talking lasers. By now it should be blatantly clear that removing options and simplifying everything to appeal to inexperienced Worms players is a recipe for failure.

I mean, sure, I agree with that. But W.M.D is hardly "simplifying everything". Some things are simplified, sure, but it's not as simplified as you make it out to be.

Lack of options in the base game. Way fewer possibilities when you consider 3rd party modifications available in WA. There is honestly no comparison.[/quote]

引用自 Beatrice：

Team 17's development team changes constantly and they literally don't know what was included or possible in previous games. There is nobody on their team with a deep understanding of the series. They don't realize the game is missing replay files because they didn't know they were ever included. It's mind-boggling that anyone expects these people to determine a single weapon/utility power for the entire game. The thing is, if they'd just listen to certain people on these forums, they could have made a perfect game 10 years ago.

W:A did not originally support replay files. That was added later by two community members that were recruited by Team17. By the way, you get the same thing by just recording your game with a recording software of your choice. Also, "perfect" is subjective and not everyone in the forums are going to agree with what should be in a "perfect" Worms game.

That doesn't matter. Replays were added, what, 10 years ago? Same with most of the other landmark features. Hardly anyone has played long enough to know the distinction anymore. The post-release features are the standard that has been set. Anything less is not acceptable.

引用自 Beatrice：

Add all the features and options from previous titles as a starting point and build from there. Doing all that every 1-2 years would be a waste, so make it the definitive title and just keep updating it.

No. You can't just keep updating the same game forever. Sometimes making a new game on a new engine is better to take advantage of technological advancements. An aging engine will eventually ultimately fail on a new system. But the thing is, Team17, you should make a new title when the franchise actually needs a fresh coat of paint or needs a new engine to work on new systems. Keyword being "needs". Following Call of Duty's example is just a pathway to mediocrity.

Maybe not forever.. I think we're basically in agreement on this point.

引用自 Beatrice：

Lastly add full unicode support and throw in an automatic translator for in-game text chat.

Yes, add in a translator that cannot accurately translate most languages between each other. Machine translators are awful and should never be used in an official product.

Basic communication is better than no communication. Worms is extremely multinational. It's becoming almost rare to find a player from an English-speaking country. It sucks when your entire conversation with a person consists of "ns" and "bl", and I know for a fact that's why some players like TheWalrus have become disinterested with the game as of late. A translation bot could of course be turned off, and it would help people to learn other languages as well as encourage people to speak with proper formal grammar so that it could be translated accurately.

引用自 Beatrice：

Release it free-to-play with ad or dlc support worldwide. The asian worms games were free to play and had millions of players. That's the kind of critical mass you need to repair your failing franchise.

Yes, make a game that costs money and time to make free to play. Just because a couple of games made for the Asian market did it.

The F2P part is kind of an afterthought. I don't care if they charge or not. But charging WMD prices ($35) is a bad idea if they want to build a substantial playerbase.

引用自 Beatrice：

Keep in mind that most of the people on these discussions that complain about W.M.D not being enough like Armageddon only say that and leave it at that, as if it is self-explanatory. With the lack of elaboration, the devs are unable to give you what you want. They don't know why people love Armageddon, and just make assumptions based on WA's source code. The lack of communication is a problem that *both sides* have. The team should ask more and better questions, and you guys should give better answers. Telling the team "just make it like WA" will result in misguided efforts, which is possibly what W.M.D is: a misguided effort.

Both Skunk3 and I have made extremely long and detailed posts dozens of times on these forums explaining exactly what needs to be done. There's no way they could not know unless they're just willfully ignorant.

引用自 Beatrice：

That being said, WA is still getting updated and some of those features not in it that you requested will be in on an upcoming update (though that's assuming said update even gets out before *cough*halflife3*cough* the rapture).

Let's hope so. We have heard some positive affirmations recently from the developers with regards to continued and more frequent updates. But those affirmations were followed by 3 months of silence.

[Acquired Violence]

引用自 Obn3g0n：

Not true. They bungled the physics, worm animations, collision masks, jumps, and the depth of options is tiny in comparison. Armageddon players could be pleased but you're right that it would take a lot. Why make a new game at all if you can't surpass a game that's almost 20 years old?

How did they mess up collission masks, jumps, and physics? From my experience, the physics interactions work as I'd expect them to in W.M.D, just as they did in Armageddon. It'd be nice if you backed up this claim.

Personally, I don't think W.M.D even *has* to outdo Armageddon, it just needs to at least respect what made Armageddon great, and offer something new to the table. In a new game, I'd at least expect something new that wasn't offered in a previous game.

I like W.M.D for what it is (not that I don't have my complaints). It ain't Armageddon, but what it does offer makes the game interesting enough for me to find enjoyable.

[Obn3g0n]

Tbh I might be talking out of my ar$e about a couple of those points, eg. the collision masks. I haven't actually played WMD. I know they overlooked a lot of WA's polish though. Just watching the game on Youtube makes that more than evident. Would anyone deny that - do I need specific examples? I'm positive there are tons of them.

[Euphytose]

The only thing that's truly off is the distance where falling starts dealing damage at. It's way too permissive here.

[Acquired Violence]

I mean, I've heard people complain about ninja ropes getting stuck for what seems like no reason a lot, even if I haven't experienced that. Might be something Team17 should investigate.

As far as physics goes, you might be more qualified to judge how messed up the physics are, but I haven't really had any problems. Maybe the launch trajectories and/or velocities are a little off, I can't really tell. But from my experience, the physics interactions work the way I expect them to. And if something didn't turn out the way I wanted/predicted, I usually attribute it to an error I made.

But you really wouldn't know unless you've tested it yourself.

Edit:

引用自 Euphytose：

The only thing that's truly off is the distance where falling starts dealing damage at. It's way too permissive here.

Ah, I see. That may explain why I take falling damage a lot on Armageddon after having played a game of W.M.D. Actually, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to add the ability to configure the highest distance you can fall without taking fall damage.

[Rantsi]

They've messed up many things in WMD, here's a few examples
- gravity or something is way lower so you don't feel the worm that well. The worm almost floats in the air when you ninja rope.
- Ninja rope is unpredictable when you bounce off of a wall. You can gain or lose momentum after a very similar move.
- Rocket league car's movement looks ridiculous, it's just out of place. Machine guns (helicopter, mounted machine gun) eat up the ground like it was made of paper. Dubstep gun is out of place as well.
- when you land from the parachute, the worm can bounce unexpectedly backwards if you hold arrow keys.

WMD has also many unfixed bugs. I hope Team17 will return to WMD at some point and fix those bugs and also add some new missing features.

Anyway we should stop bumping this thread because WMD isn't nearly as bad as the topic suggests...

[Happy Pink Pony]

^^^^^
Yeah, cuz my butt hurts

[Jonno]

Hey all,

I'm locking this thread now as it's become messy with the slurs and mud slinging.

If you'd like to continue this discussion please feel free to do so in a new thread.

Thanks,