Full loot in PVE and PVP

[ilcontegis [Linux]]

So right now we have the following playing style

1. Solo
2. Multi PVE only
3. Multi PVP and PVE

Therefore anyone can play their way without being obliged to do PVP or even being online. Now my question is, why not implementing full loot in all those playing style? If I die in a dungeon doing PVE there should be consequences, if I die doing PVP there should be consequences.

Right now dying means only to receive some damage to your armor and weapon which frankly destroys all the immersion of the game. Let's not make this game another casual super easy game..we already have tons of those...

Thank you

[Angela]

引用自 B@DAragon：

引用自 Angela：

It does matter - apples and oranges, and also as stated, your stats are incorrect.

So tell me the stats then. It is easy to claim this and that without anything backing it.

Do you see this game as a typical MMO since you didnt see the MMO games with survival features as MMO games.

There are no stats available. But there are certainly a lot more than only Steam players playing those MMORPGs you listed at this time.

This is an RPG, with mutiplayer elements. This is not a survival game.

[Angela]

引用自 B@DAragon：

To me it seems SotA developers dont want their game to get the success it could have gotten.

Sad you feel that way, but most likely it will succeed precisely because of the choices they are making in these areas.

[Angela]

引用自 B@DAragon：

引用自 Angela：

Sad you feel that way, but most likely it will succeed precisely because of the choices they are making in these areas.

I very much doubt that

This is a matter of opinion.

[Cuddles]

I dunno, World of Warcraft is still going pretty strong as a subscription based MMORPG and the PvP there isn't free for all. The Open World PvP can be exploited too if you have a friend on a PvE server.

[Angela]

引用自 B@DAragon：

games that dont have risk vs reward and consequences in their game dont do as well as games that have it - especially in the long run.

You have not demonstrated this. You will need to provide hard data on this, feel free to do so now, or admit you are simply expressing opinion without evidence.

[nosavynada]

Not everyone needs pulse pounding, adrenaline generating action vs other players to enjoy something. Many simply like the social aspect, PvE and crafting. Many of those also enjoy PvP on the occasion but not 24/7 and without their ability to control it.

I have a few friends who see the PvP option the same as B@dAragon it needs to be full risk and reward, it needs to be open world to do PvP right. And they unlike I have seen on the boards give some good reasons.
- do not need to worry about getting close to verify if someone is PvP eligible or not.
- do not need ways to exploit flagging yourself non-PvP when it is convenient to you (like when you stumble out with 10k gold and wish to be risk free.)
- need for those that commit to PvP be fully committed, know what they are getting into and its not something with a safty line, you do well, play smart or you slip up and can pay for it.
- ability to force someone off of camping a spawn or resource node - particularly if as some have suggested that the single online and friends online are simply controlling who you see. It becomes a liability to not be able to see where the guy(s) are who are getting to a resource just ahead of you. You need to A) be able to see where they are so you can jump ahead of them or if Open PvP, go move them off of it.

These games can be enjoyed in different ways and ultimately it is the developers who spelled out what they wanted to do and asked those of like mind to back them to determine how they want the game to go. If I find it turning not to my liking - it will not be the first and as in the past I move on / back to those I do like.

[Angela]

引用自 B@DAragon：

引用自 Angela：

You have not demonstrated this. You will need to provide hard data on this, feel free to do so now, or admit you are simply expressing opinion without evidence.

Yes i have demonstrated this snip

You have demonstrated nothing.

[nosavynada]

引用自 B@DAragon：

引用自 Angela：

You have not demonstrated this. You will need to provide hard data on this, feel free to do so now, or admit you are simply expressing opinion without evidence.

Yes i have demonstrated this which is more then you did. Next time try to back your loose statements with ....... something. What you claim " but there are many more people who try to play well purely out of a sense of personal achievement" is just your own opinion, nothing else.

EQ did not noave Open PvP nor full loot - (did have corpse runs) and is still doing well and in fact has a pretty substantial subscriber base for their even less PvP Landmark.

WoW the 10 ton gorilla in this genre does not have Open PvP (just certain zones) and does not have full loot doing enormously well.

Rift not Open PvP, no full loot - still going strong.

DaoC - had Open PvP and some aspects of full loot - down to a single server and I had heard it was about to shut down.

Age of Conan - Open PvP no full loot - not doing so well but still going.

Shadowbane - had both - gone, non-existant fairly quickly - can be found in 3rd party servers here an there but with very low online subs at any one time.

EVE - has Open PvP to a certain extent, sorta full loot though most items are destroyed. Initially was very very pro C_bears but as things progressed and folks found that PvP could be fun and exciting more and more it has shifted to accomodate it with various options for participating. That is still going quite well and still has the largest online and largest combats I am aware of. I still like EVE and check in now and then.

My point is that it is untrue to say that without Open PvP and Full loot they do not do as well as those that do.

Lets just agree to disagree on that point and perhaps work on ways to fit Open PvP and some better option of looting into the game at some point and in some way that fits with their storylines without it countering the stated objectives of allowing single and friendsl only etc modes.

There are merits to both sides and player bases for both. Judging only from the stated goal of the Kickstarter those wanting instanced options would seem to be the home team as it were.

[DweebotheGeek]

引用自 B@DAragon：

引用自 nosavynada：

I am all for more serious penalty for death (PvE and PvP) it changes your mindset and how you approach combat or going after a particular goal. With no penalty it is trivial, you tend not to put much effort in improving how you do things or if you do things and you often take risks you would not normally do if it had a penalty.

I agree.

It is as fun as playing poker with fake money, it mean nothing. I gave up on that when i was 10 years old.

this

[Angela]

引用自 B@DAragon：

引用自 Angela：

You have demonstrated nothing.

I have but you havent. I compared different games with different playstyles and different risk vs reward here on steam and the ones with risk vs reward and consequences were doing alot better.

Where are the statistics that back your statement?

You have not. You listed games using Steam statistics which are incomplete and inaccurate, and not at all representative of the numbers actually playing MMORPGs in your list and compared survival games to MMORPGs - these were your first and second mistakes respectively. Survival games, which are by definition games that have risk and consequences, cannot be compared to RPGs - they are a different genre altogether. RPGs are about character development, which is why they always let players gain levels, skills, and retain loot and gear - so a player can develop their character. Survival games are about staying alive, and often have permadeath and loot loss because of this.

It is quite possible that your ultimate genre would be survival games. I notice you do not own a copy of RUST or DAYZ, and have only played a total of 24 minutes on Dark Souls II (a game which has heavy punishments for failure, something you claim to enjoy greatly). Why is this? Should you not play these games if this is the sort of game you enjoy?

[Angela]

引用自 B@DAragon：

I prefer fantasy games like old UO with it's risk vs reward option and consequences - my performance in PvP mattered in UO, i wont matter one bit in this game.

There is some loot drops and open PVP upon flagging in SotA already, so what is the issue?

[Angela]

引用自 B@DAragon：

引用自 Angela：

There is some loot drops and open PVP upon flagging in SotA already, so what is the issue?

There is no loot drops since you can buy back the item i looted from you. I get some gold and that i dont consider getting any loot from you

Why don't you petition the Devs to add a Stretch Goal for "full loot no insurance options in PVP" so people could vote with their wallet if they wanted to make it happen. As far as I know they are already considering this as a further option for the PVPers. You should get involved in the game more - you would know what they are talking about for a start instead of waiting for someone like me to tell you what's going on, and if you really believe this is the game for you the best move would be to buy it and contribute your ideas. Sitting here debating this with me is pointless.

I already suggested this could be an option myself. Just seems odd you are still here going round and round yet you don't know what is actually going on in this game with the ideas you are fighting over.

[Angela]

引用自 B@DAragon：

引用自 Angela：

Why don't you petition the Devs to add a Stretch Goal for "full loot no insurance options in PVP" so people could vote with their wallet if they wanted to make it happen. As far as I know they are already considering this as a further option for the PVPers. You should get involved in the game more - you would know what they are talking about for a start instead of waiting for someone like me to tell you what's going on, and if you really believe this is the game for you the best move would be to buy it and contribute your ideas. Sitting here debating this with me is pointless.

I already suggested this could be an option myself. Just seems odd you are still here going round and round yet you don't know what is actually going on in this game with the ideas you are fighting over.

I and similar PvP interested players over at SotA forums have done that from day one on their forums and develpers didnt listen one bit. We were talking to ears that were closed for such arguments.

They created what they called a PvP compromice which in fact was giving in to all arguments the PvE crowd demanded should be in PvP. Not one suggestion coming from the PvP interested players was to be found in this so called "PvP compromice".

I left the SotA forums to never come back since i concider both moderators and developers to be biased.

I already own the game. Bought it during kickstarter.

So you're saying, despite what I just said, you have officially given up. So you're here to argue and not contribute.

[DweebotheGeek]

this thread isnt about pvp it is about weather or not you should have to do corpse runs after death..... please stay on topic plenty of other threads about pvp......

to angela: you respawn in a zone very near if not right next to where you die why exactly are you against walking across the zone to claim your items?

[Angela]

引用自 B@DAragon：

引用自 Angela：

So you're saying, despite what I just said, you have officially given up. So you're here to argue and not contribute.

I have not given up i have just choosen not to contribute or argue on a forum i consider to be biased.

And what are you expecting to achieve on these forums, pointless roundabout arguing based on old information because you willfully choose to avoid the forums where new information is actually disseminated...total avoidance of the Devs whose game this is isn't going to get you far.

All you can do here is complain, again based on old info because you aren't keeping up with what is actually going on. Is this your motive? To be the voice of complaint?