Conquest Dark

Conquest Dark

The Pale Desolation should be the endless map.
..and the arena can stay too, as is, or perhaps making that one a version of what TPD is.

..regardless, TPD, a nice and large map is what endless should be about.

I know it won't happen, I'm just waxing lyrical. :steamsad:

..and finally, as is, they need (they won't) to implement an "arrow" (or similar) that points towards the caravan on that map. Sure, you can get to them, if you start "hunting" them, though if you have slow movement it is a pain -- not to mention fighting at the same time.

PS: I do not like that the endless arena map added the walls in the new demo version. Looked and felt better before. Yeah, I get "it", but now since the walls are tall, etc, you fell even more constrained.
Last edited by PC GAMER; Apr 8 @ 7:20pm
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Showing 1-5 of 5 comments
Irmstoi  [developer] Apr 8 @ 8:27pm 
I've changed The Pale Desolation a bit for the EA release, making it so that instead of no time addition, the later-tier bosses now give 1 minute. It’s now theoretically an endless mode, but most builds will still hit the time limit. The problem with making it endless was that for EA it’d be way too efficient for farming resources compared to other endgame levels (not available in the demo). That said, all of this is subject to change based on player feedback during the EA period.
Originally posted by Irmstoi:
I've changed The Pale Desolation a bit for the EA release, making it so that instead of no time addition, the later-tier bosses now give 1 minute. It’s now theoretically an endless mode, but most builds will still hit the time limit. The problem with making it endless was that for EA it’d be way too efficient for farming resources compared to other endgame levels (not available in the demo). That said, all of this is subject to change based on player feedback during the EA period.

I'm surprised you answered me, unlike many times before, including during the January "rush". ..and this is good, obviously. :lunar2019grinningpig:

..so I'll reply here with this:

1.) any further demo updates or is current build the final version?

2.) do you think nerfing the, overall, XP orb drop so much from previous demo is cool? ..it's a demo for pete's sake - let us have some fun still.
..not to mention you already confirmed we will not be able to import demo saves, and as such, what's the problem if the demo is more "relaxed"? ..which it was in previous demo, so this change is even nastier due to that -- demo to demo nerf. :steamsad:

3.) why did you really completely stop XP orbs dropping when "red time" bosses arrive? ..because of what I did and discuss? that had so many "stages" to be able to do it, it may as well not count as a tactic for 99.9% of players. ..and those who want to (not I) would use trainers etc in the future anyway.

4.) not sure how "easy" red gems will be to get/farm in full game, but if this demo, especially, (was bad in last demo, but "way" better), is any indication, it almost feels like you perhaps intend to sell "boosters" or such for real money. :steamfacepalm:
..it is torture, and you know it.

5.) why have you not replied to anyone who asks and suggest we be able (in the demo too!!) reset all things that take gems/etc, so we may try different builds, etc? personally, as is, I have everything possible maxed apart from altars, which I have them all at level ten.
..surely for the main game, surely, you will allow resetting -- even if at a cost. perhaps using the silver "tokens". (yeah, red orbs, tokens, I'm not memorizing specific names - you know what I mean.)
Last edited by PC GAMER; Apr 8 @ 8:59pm
Irmstoi  [developer] Apr 8 @ 10:12pm 
1.) No further demo updates. The EA launch is in 3 weeks.

2.) Overall XP gain was not nerfed. If you are referring to Soul Fragments they were too efficient way to gain power overpowering other sources.

3.) There were multiple "exploits" related to this. I've enabled it back for EA, but we'll see what happens.

4.) You will eventually hit a soft wall with Corrupted Soul Fragments (red gems) and altar upgrades no matter how high the resource gains are because the cost to upgrade increases exponentially and altar level is not capped. This is intended to make the resource not become redundant. If by boosters you mean some kind of microtransaction consumables then no there will not be anything like that. There are sources in-game that allow you to increase resource gains.

5.) I'm not sure what you mean by this? You will eventually unlock and upgrade everything. If you had the option to remove upgrade resources from weapon sets / abilities then you would only need to upgrade one set and could switch between those every time you wanted to play something different and the power gains from altars are not build defining.
PC GAMER Apr 8 @ 11:20pm 
Originally posted by Irmstoi:
3.) There were multiple "exploits" related to this. I've enabled it back for EA, but we'll see what happens.
Oh, that's good news. (..and as you say, it may have to be "looked at again", but initially it's back.) :steamthumbsup:


Originally posted by Irmstoi:
4.) You will eventually hit a soft wall with Corrupted Soul Fragments (red gems) and altar upgrades no matter how high the resource gains are because the cost to upgrade increases exponentially and altar level is not capped. This is intended to make the resource not become redundant.
Yes, I understand and realized each altar upgrade was exponential, but someone like me, will still want to upgrade altars way past level 10, but not at the insane cost of obtaining the CSFs - henceforth referred to as red gems. In fact, their drop past a certain point makes it impossible - time wise. So at some point, and pretty fast too, sadly, even if you played the game 24 hours a day, specifically farming them the most efficient game meta way, you would not be bale to get enough for even the "next" level, past around 10 - keeping in mind you would use them on different altars too, not just one.

..so in a way, having altars uncapped is what I guess "triggers" me. since it means I will "want" to keep upgrading them no matter the cost, but not being able to past a certain point, no matter what. so perhaps reconsider capping them and having a new "mechanic" of spending excess "resources" of any kind. many games do just that. ie: create a new altar that could "consume" any resource you give it, and in return grants xyx. xyz, could be so many things, no point me listing any. ..or it could be a "conversion" altar where you sacrifice one resource type to gain another -- obviously with costs balanced whereby you would need more lesser type/quality ones to get better/higher ones. ..and once someone still got "everything" usable, then two things; a) who cares? you would (just like now with the demo) end up having a bunch of extra "everything" and just have them. people would still play endless etc to get to higher waves etc, and not to get gems/etc. b) use them (all types - different cost depending on type) as the price to reset player upgrades. ie: weapon sets, power abilities, passive abilities, runes, and yes, altars themselves.

..many players would do this, long before they had enough for all to be upgraded at once, so they would fully upgrade some, then to try other "builds/tactics" reset the existing ones to zero, reclaim the items used and reuse them to upgrade other things.

..no altar cap? now that (whilst I like that) sounds, potentially, OP. won't that be able to make you invincible - at least in theory? Same reason why, surely, you cap other things that would result in the same outcome, to 75% or less. ie: block chance, damage taken, etc.
..this is more "theoretical" since before you got there -invincible-, the price to pay would simply not be possible. but then why "tease" OCD-like mental cases like myself and no doubt many others. if we know altars are endless but we can never upgrade to level XX, that would make us angry - at the game, devs, etc. it's a mental thing.


Originally posted by Irmstoi:
There are sources in-game that allow you to increase resource gains.
Sounds good, though I wonder what and how good they will be. ..again, they logically, can not be "super" good, lest be at the same place we started -- that one could become super OP or even nigh invincible. ..but good that there will be a way to boost getting resources.


Originally posted by Irmstoi:
5.) I'm not sure what you mean by this? You will eventually unlock and upgrade everything. If you had the option to remove upgrade resources from weapon sets / abilities then you would only need to upgrade one set and could switch between those every time you wanted to play something different and the power gains from altars are not build defining.

Yes, that is exactly what I and a lot of other people mean and want. Nearly all (well, a lot) games that have player "upgrades" also allow you to reset skills etc. RPGs, tower defense games, etc. many are free to do and some cost resources. you could add a cost (as per my "b" suggestion above) for doing this.

..you make the last part sound as if doing so, or being able to, would be some "exploit" or "player advantage" mechanic. it's not. all it does for those who want to use it (and again, you could slow people from "abusing" it by making it cost resources each use) is to save them time. real life time. they would still only have the same amount of upgrades applied to the new items, but now they could play as another build type -fully upgraded- without having to "grind" (play many hours) to get even more resources. for me this is not important, overall, though if the option existed I may use it on altars, specifically just to test things. ie: all other things being equal, is it better to have the crit alter be at say, level 15, and the health one at 0 or 5 instead of both at 10? like that. (and yes, the price would still be more between that example, but i could reset another alter too, which i may no longer want upgraded at all, but have sunk "thousands" of red gems into.)
Last edited by PC GAMER; Apr 8 @ 11:28pm
Endless maps should give reduced farm at lower levels and higher farm at high levels.

Basically running the endless should start being more productive at around ~3x-time of a normal. So it rewards the log run investment.

Say you wanted to run 5 normal, or one endless. the endless should give 6-7 normal runs farm if you survived that long.

For crazy people, with endless at 20x as long they should be raking in the farm.
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