If you were Akira Toriyama, what would you retcon about DBZ?

[Ralen]

Besides probably scrapping the Android, Cell, and Buu Sagas, I'd toss SSJ2, SSJ3, and make SSJ4 the new "SSJ2" as well as the final transformation.

Your move... Toriyama.

[Patricia Hapon]

引用自 Pax Augusta：

引用自 Pixel_Kid.exe™：

I always thought it'd be cool to see what would've happened if Vegito never unfused. Closest I'll ever see that is in DB Multiverse.

Meh, it would have led to an even more broken story. Vegito is never seen using his full power, and he could have destroyed Super Buu with ease if not for the Z-fighters being absorbed. Supposedly Vegito in base form is as powerful as SSJ4 Goku, but that's purely speculation.

I personally prefer when the main characters aren't virtually indestructible. There is a lack of tension and conflict when there literally is no equal for the hero. Vegito was interesting, but I'm not sure how the series could have gone forward with him as the center.

It's pretty simple, we would had Beerus having his ash kicked by SSJ3 Vegito then it would be the end of DB.
GT could not happen as Pilaf (emperor of the messed wish) wouldn't recognize Goku nor wish for him to be younger.

[robomagon]

引用自 Idealist：

引用自 Pax Augusta：

Meh, it would have led to an even more broken story. Vegito is never seen using his full power, and he could have destroyed Super Buu with ease if not for the Z-fighters being absorbed. Supposedly Vegito in base form is as powerful as SSJ4 Goku, but that's purely speculation.

I personally prefer when the main characters aren't virtually indestructible. There is a lack of tension and conflict when there literally is no equal for the hero. Vegito was interesting, but I'm not sure how the series could have gone forward with him as the center.

It's pretty simple, we would had Beerus having his ash kicked by SSJ3 Vegito then it would be the end of DB.
GT could not happen as Pilaf (emperor of the messed wish) wouldn't recognize Goku nor wish for him to be younger.

GT couldn't happen anyway in the main timeline as Pilaf and co. are children now according to BoG. GT is now an alternate timeline and wouldn't be affected at all by changes to the main timeline.

[Patricia Hapon]

引用自 robomagon：

引用自 Idealist：

It's pretty simple, we would had Beerus having his ash kicked by SSJ3 Vegito then it would be the end of DB.
GT could not happen as Pilaf (emperor of the messed wish) wouldn't recognize Goku nor wish for him to be younger.

GT couldn't happen anyway in the main timeline as Pilaf and co. are children now according to BoG. GT is now an alternate timeline and wouldn't be affected at all by changes to the main timeline.

This part mean nothing, for the simple reason that GT is a lot of time after BoG. (Trunks and Goten are kids in BoG and teen in GT)

We already know that Pilaf is good at reuniting the DB (did at least two time ... Nah, three, I forgot one where he was "hiding" a ball and they had to go see Baba).
We also know that he's bad at making wish (or unlucky, can't say ...)

It is highly probable that before GT he got the DB back (like so often) and wished "to be older" ... That could likely explain the situation as it's really Pilaf like.
So, while we don't know what happened between BoG and GT it's impossible to say that they are incompatible.

(I stop speaking about GT being or not in the main timeline (so canon), I already said a lot of things on differents threads, it's useless to speak about it, so let's go back to the main subject or Vegito as the main character)

[Virus_Kid]

引用自 Pax Augusta：

引用自 Pixel_Kid.exe™：

I always thought it'd be cool to see what would've happened if Vegito never unfused. Closest I'll ever see that is in DB Multiverse.

Meh, it would have led to an even more broken story. Vegito is never seen using his full power, and he could have destroyed Super Buu with ease if not for the Z-fighters being absorbed. Supposedly Vegito in base form is as powerful as SSJ4 Goku, but that's purely speculation.

I personally prefer when the main characters aren't virtually indestructible. There is a lack of tension and conflict when there literally is no equal for the hero. Vegito was interesting, but I'm not sure how the series could have gone forward with him as the center.

Oh yeah, for sure. I mainly want to see what villain Akira Toriyama would have to dream up to even touch Vegito.

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

GT's already been pretty much retconned. beyond that? the rest of the series was fine. bit over the top, but its DBZ so thats expected.

as to those that dont know GT's been retconned. Battle of the Gods takes place a few years after the ending to Z. this puts it in the time skip between Z and GT. however Pilaf in GT is an old man, but in Battle of the Gods Pilaf wished for YOUTH. hes like 10 years old in BotG. there is no way to age over 50-60 years within 4. GT is ignored completely, far as Toriyama is concerned /it doesnt exist/.

also, second bit is the fact that the new series is going to take place around the same time period GT was supposed to be in. and will be focused on "Not Universe 7".

[Ralen]

引用自 Frumious Bandersnatch：

GT's already been pretty much retconned. beyond that? the rest of the series was fine. bit over the top, but its DBZ so thats expected.

as to those that dont know GT's been retconned. Battle of the Gods takes place a few years after the ending to Z. this puts it in the time skip between Z and GT. however Pilaf in GT is an old man, but in Battle of the Gods Pilaf wished for YOUTH. hes like 10 years old in BotG. there is no way to age over 50-60 years within 4. GT is ignored completely, far as Toriyama is concerned /it doesnt exist/.

also, second bit is the fact that the new series is going to take place around the same time period GT was supposed to be in. and will be focused on "Not Universe 7".

Wrong, wrong, and more wrong. BoG takes place six years before the end of Z (Pan isn't even born and Uub hasn't been introduced if you paid attention to the film). GT begins five years after Z, thus there is an 11 year gap (16 years if we use the funimation dub timeline). Feel free to check the official Dragon Ball timeline. As Idealist stated, Pilaf is an expert at collecting dragon balls (guess what he does at the beginning of RoF) and it's quite plausible he would undo the wish with 11 years to do so.

Please, stop with the "GT is not canon" nonsense. Toriyama has never said it's not official nor has anything ever retconned GT. There is far more evidence supporting that GT is canon rather than it is not. Feel free to read the Daizenshuu, as it is the absolute authority on all things Dragon Ball, and it states GT is canon.

I don't know anything about a new series. Earth is only in Universe 7, so if there is a new series not in that universe, then it won't be able the Z fighters. Regardless, this thread is about how you would fix Z. GT is not mentioned anywhere in the OP if you read closely.

[Veya]

引用自 Pax Augusta：

Wrong, wrong, and more wrong. BoG takes place six years before the end of Z (Pan isn't even born and Uub hasn't been introduced if you paid attention to the film). GT begins five years after Z, thus there is an 11 year gap (16 years if we use the funimation dub timeline). Feel free to check the official Dragon Ball timeline. As Idealist stated, Pilaf is an expert at collecting dragon balls (guess what he does at the beginning of RoF) and it's quite plausible he would undo the wish with 11 years to do so.

Except Dragon Ball Online, which have been stated as the official continuation, denies GT its canon, according to Dragon Ball Online, the Majin race was created in the year 790 by Mr. Buu(read: Fat Buu), when he used Babidi's magic to create a wife(Buub, if I recall correctly) for himself, however, in GT, Mr. Buu permanently merged with Uub to create Majuub in 789, which means GT cannot be canon if the Majin race exists.

[Moon Rabbit]

I would probably retcon super saiyan completely, as it's the moment all of the other characters became eclipsed by the saiyans. Basically, I'd retcon the point where the show became entirely about waiting for Goku (Gohan for Cel).

Hell I may even retcon the entire saiyan race, and go back to Goku being the Monkey King analogue, rather than an alien.

[King of Evil]

I would bring Launch back, bring back tournament fights & have humans like Yamcha, Krillin, Roshi & Tien be useful & would also have more super powered people in tournaments. I understand that DBZ isn't Dragonball but the original Dragonball had a lot of cool stuff that was just thrown away.

I think it would also be cool if Krillin, Roshi and Yamcha were kidnapped by someone & turned into Androids/Cyborgs. Goku wouldn't be able to kill them if it was his friends so it'd be more interesting.

That & it would be an excuse to give them a power up by unconventional means.

[Ralen]

引用自 Veya：

Except Dragon Ball Online, which have been stated as the official continuation, denies GT its canon, according to Dragon Ball Online, the Majin race was created in the year 790 by Mr. Buu(read: Fat Buu), when he used Babidi's magic to create a wife(Buub, if I recall correctly) for himself, however, in GT, Mr. Buu permanently merged with Uub to create Majuub in 789, which means GT cannot be canon if the Majin race exists.

Except Dragon Ball Online isn't official, was an MMO, and was shut down shortly after release. It has zero binding authority over anything related to the Dragon Ball Universe, just like every other Dragon Ball video game.

Also, even if we were to consider DBO as canon, you do realize that permanent fusions mean nothing in the Dragon Ball Universe? Look at Vegito as a perfect example. His fusion was supposed to be permanent, however being absorbed by Super Buu reverted Goku and Vegeta back to their original forums. It's not out of the realm of reason the same could happen for Uub and Majin Buu, being as they both are magic.

Regardless, it's not canon so it doesn't matter.

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

GT isnt canon dude. its the one and only series that akira toriyama did NOT have any part in, it was done after he left. and he /ignored it/. thats not admitting it to be canon or any such.

and lets put it this way - if it WAS canon then the logical place for akira toriyama to pick up the Dragonball franchise would be POST GT. as he picked it up and continued it off of Z, that says hes just ignoring its existence which means its not canon.

oh and since you dont 'buy' the pilaf argument. heres another one then-

after the events of battle of the gods, the next movie in the chain which is also confirmed main timeline is Revival of "F". and by that time, according to what information is available via the trailers and FROM AKIRA TORIYAMA HIMSELF, goku stops using his super saiyan states in combat because /he doesnt need them anymore/. that includes SSG. because all the power from all the states is incorporated into his base form - he doesnt need to transform to get that level of strength, and transforming is pointless because it no longer makes him stronger.

according to GT, goku still needs SS1-3 as a power amplifier.

once more - GT is not canon. its very existence is being denied by Akira Toriyama who is /the/ authority on everything Dragonball.

[Ralen]

引用自 Frumious Bandersnatch：

...

I am not going to argue this with you for the simple fact that you are absolutely wrong. You clearly don't actually know the facts, Toriyama's involvement, or how the Daizenshuu (Official Dragon Ball Encyclopedia) with Toriyama's own comments confirmed it is in fact canon. The fact you didn't even know that BoG was before the end of Z proves your credibility on this matter and DBZ in general.

Just to give you an idea of how much involvement Toriyama actually had, he came up with the name of the show, drew all of the designs for the main characters, planets, and others, and his own production team, who worked with him on Dragon Ball and DBZ, produced GT alongside Toei. The only thing Toriyama didn't do was write the story, yet we already know from Toriyama, himself, something doesn't need to be from the manga or exclusively written by him to be canon (look at Bardock's story, Battle of Gods, Revival of F, the expansion of Future Trunks, etc.).

That's a terribly weak argument. You may as well say Dragon Ball isn't canon as Toriyama has been "ignoring its existence" for more than twenty years. You clearly don't understand how SSJ works and what SSJ God actually did to Goku's power level. Treat it as a massive zenkai boost. SSJ still is a multiplier, thus he would always get stronger if he were to transform. Why do you think Goku went SSJ against Beerus even after he absorbed most of the SSJ God power?

Goku actually barely uses any SSJ transformations in GT until he unlocks SSJ4. It's partially because his younger body cannot sustain the large amounts of ki, but also because he didn't need to transform early on. Really though, do some research, read the Daizenshuu, and actually read what Toriyama has said multiple times rather than coming to your own uninformed, biased conclusion. It doesn't matter whether you like GT or don't. It is canon and nothing you rationalize into being a contradiction will change that.

[{RECON}Nexus_[QS]]

Who gives two sh*ts if GT isn't canon, it's still an extra bit to watch. I love every second of it, even the Rap.

[Ralen]

引用自 RECONBunny：

Who gives two sh*ts if GT isn't canon, it's still an extra bit to watch. I love every second of it, even the Rap.

If you are going to prove GT "isn't canon," you can at least have evidence and a well-reasoned argument to back it up. Otherwise, you merely make yourself look like a fool. Again, this thread is about what you would do with Z, not GT. Fun fact, GT has less inconsistencies and plot holes than Dragon Ball or DBZ, which are littered with them. Toriyama is terrible when it comes to continuity and not contradicting his own story. Thus, there is a lot to fix in Z, in particular.

[Veya]

引用自 Pax Augusta：

-snip-

Alright, then explain me one thing: If GT is canon, why Beerus, Super Saiyan God and Freeza's revival were never mentioned in GT, when they had several points of relevance through the series? why Freeza never turned in his golden form during the Super 17 arc?

And no, "Well, it didn't exist at the time" isn't a valid answer, because it is a meta answer and doesn't justify it in-universe, if all those things had happened in the GT timeline, they would have been mentioned.