Do you NEED child labor for survivor new home ?

[Cadelanne]

I've been trying all day to get a decent enough start in survivor mode with a ♥♥♥♥ ton of different strategies. I tried to rush gatherers hut, rush beacon, rush houthouse, double medical post, double emergency shift on wood piles right in the begining, so far nothing have been working.

This is mostly because I can't keep up with food, hunter's hut are wortheless with 11 food per day when you need 32. Also because I get a quarter of my popluation ill by the 3rd day, no matter if I build tents or not.

Is it doable without child labor ? I didn't really tried with child labor yet but I have the feeling it won't really help because food hoards too, too much and there's nothing I can do about it. Is this mode even doable ?

[Bobywan]

Yes doable without child labor but very hard and I would not recommend it ^^

Originally posted by Cadelanne:

Is this mode even doable ?

Check the stats of the achievement, of course it's doable.

[Cadelanne]

Originally posted by Bobywan:

Yes doable without child labor but very hard and I would not recommend it ^^

Originally posted by Cadelanne:

Is this mode even doable ?

Check the stats of the achievement, of course it's doable.

Then I don't know I'm just too stupid for this game I guess.

[amordron]

Child labor is not only not needed it is not recommended for order. If playing order child shelters in many ways is better.

Faith on the other hand child labor is quite powerfull and vary recommended. That being said there is little need to get it early and often is delayed till quite a bit later in builds.

It is not vary hard skipping child labor it just depends on your build. If your build is based around it and you change nothing but removing it yes it will be vary hard if your build is made around not having it there is hardly any difficulty increase.

Hunter huts are 15 raw food per day not 11. They are far from worthless and should always be used to some degree. Rushing hothouse is my fav with child labor to staff them thou but even than you should be using two Hunter hits to tie you over till hothouse as will need to get the 2 steam cores from the auto before getting hothouses as the first core should be used for the wall drill.

You need 1 cooked food per person also as you have more than 32 people donno where your pulling 32 from. Guess you could mean 32 raw with soup to feed 80. But that’s not enough as you should be by around day 5 already above 80 pop making that number not enough if planning to use hunters as your main food source.

Sick rate is high on survivor but manageable.

Rather than calling something worthless Mabye you should tell us exactly what you are doing for a given build you are using and we can give advice to correct it.

[Cadelanne]

Originally posted by amordron:

Child labor is not only not needed it is not recommended for order. If playing order child shelters in many ways is better.

Faith on the other hand child labor is quite powerfull and vary recommended. That being said there is little need to get it early and often is delayed till quite a bit later in builds.

It is not vary hard skipping child labor it just depends on your build. If your build is based around it and you change nothing but removing it yes it will be vary hard if your build is made around not having it there is hardly any difficulty increase.

Hunter huts are 15 raw food per day not 11. They are far from worthless and should always be used to some degree. Rushing hothouse is my fav with child labor to staff them thou but even than you should be using two Hunter hits to tie you over till hothouse as will need to get the 2 steam cores from the auto before getting hothouses as the first core should be used for the wall drill.

You need 1 cooked food per person also as you have more than 32 people donno where your pulling 32 from. Guess you could mean 32 raw with soup to feed 80. But that’s not enough as you should be by around day 5 already above 80 pop making that number not enough if planning to use hunters as your main food source.

Sick rate is high on survivor but manageable.

Rather than calling something worthless Mabye you should tell us exactly what you are doing for a given build you are using and we can give advice to correct it.

I get everything to get extended rotation and gather as much wood as I can then build research bulding and medical post and house, then gatherers house for charcoal and food buildings but at this point everyone is ill and starving, I have no ressources to build beacon and the expedition team that goes with it. Or if I manage to get everything more or less in order I used so much emergency rotation that I lose from discontent.

Anyway I don't really seek advice as this is sort of a puzzle so if you just tell me what to build I'll outright win and there's no real point in playing anymore. I just wanted to know if child labor was mandatory and given what you're telling me it is not. Still, I can't get past day 7 despite trying numerous builds for the whole day so I guess I'm just not clever enough to beat this game mode.

[The Smily]

It is not necessary to go with child labor.
If you use emergency shift as first law and use them on the resource piles as a start. You should be able to use 4 of them without hitting max discontent.
If you chose extended shift next and then soup you have a good starting point. The timing is pretty close but it works.
Also don’t research saw mill just go for wall drill. You don’t need to rush it but don’t wait to long with it. Just keep an eye on your wood supply. And don’t be afraid to let your people work in cold environment. If you have 2 medical tents you will be able to deal with that in the beginning.
GL

[webkilla]

I always go shelters -> engineering help, for New Home

But I guess it also depends on what difficulty you're playing at. As Smily notes, going straight for Wall Drill is quite viable - s'what I usually do.

The scenario where the workers took over and you're taking on a TON of sick people, its usually better to go shelters -> medical help.

but for new homes I go hard research - getting ahead of the curb there is really good, especially for getting deep into the exploration sled-team tree. YOu want all those juicy steam cores from Tesla city, oh yes you do...

[Gustuv Wynd]

I never use child labor...a research bonus from the shelters seems to be more valuable than having some extra labor. There is only a brief period where labor is hurting before you start bringing in people with your scouts. Once you get survivors coming in, you will not even need the kids anymore.

[Cadelanne]

Originally posted by The Smily:

It is not necessary to go with child labor.
If you use emergency shift as first law and use them on the resource piles as a start. You should be able to use 4 of them without hitting max discontent.
If you chose extended shift next and then soup you have a good starting point. The timing is pretty close but it works.
Also don’t research saw mill just go for wall drill. You don’t need to rush it but don’t wait to long with it. Just keep an eye on your wood supply. And don’t be afraid to let your people work in cold environment. If you have 2 medical tents you will be able to deal with that in the beginning.
GL

Huh you do it on survivor mode ? Setting 2 emergency shifts almost sends me to 100% discontent already.

[Bobywan]

Originally posted by Gustuv Wynd:

Once you get survivors coming in, you will not even need the kids anymore.

True but the beginning is the hardest part. Once i'm up and running automatons are here to perform fast research. I don't play much in extreme anyway which is the only difficulty I would use child labor as a beginning boost.

[amordron]

Originally posted by webkilla:

I always go shelters -> engineering help, for New Home

But I guess it also depends on what difficulty you're playing at. As Smily notes, going straight for Wall Drill is quite viable - s'what I usually do.

The scenario where the workers took over and you're taking on a TON of sick people, its usually better to go shelters -> medical help.

but for new homes I go hard research - getting ahead of the curb there is really good, especially for getting deep into the exploration sled-team tree. YOu want all those juicy steam cores from Tesla city, oh yes you do...

Your talking refugees (the scenario workers took over) and in that map its better to go house of prayor -> shrine -> house of healing than medical help yes its three laws vs 2 but shrine is a half law (a law with half the cooldown vs other laws till you can sign another) so really 2.5 laws time wise. While this method boosts hope (minor) but also boosts productivity in all areas via shrine while giving a better med option than med helpers that not only increases healing speed by more frees up your eng and deals with gravelly ill. While it allows you to have access to child labor. Child labor on refugess is just that much better there. Refugess you get so many kids early on that the labor boost is not insignificant. Would never go child shelters on refugees don't see any real gain from it as the house of healing route deals with all sick people there and than while even taking child labor before it for early labor still comes online before the first death from sick on survivor. To boot child labor allows you to turn up the gen heat faster to reduce that sick by more than med apprentices deals with them. If anything eng apprentice can have value but that map is not tech heavy on needs even.

Originally posted by Gustuv Wynd:

I never use child labor...a research bonus from the shelters seems to be more valuable than having some extra labor. There is only a brief period where labor is hurting before you start bringing in people with your scouts. Once you get survivors coming in, you will not even need the kids anymore.

Child labor in fact gives more tech not less than eng apprentice when combined with faith. Due to putting kids into house of healing freeing up eng for more workshops for a greater gain. As than each 5 eng is worth a normal workshop vs being only worth 30% of one for 5 kids. While child labor boosts labor in food and coal when using hothouse + thumper that you really should when using it.

In order yes the tech boost from child helpers is better as by getting your tech up you stop sick countering the need for house of healing while getting more resources from being ahead on tech. They are two vary different playstyles. As such cant really say shelters is more valuable than child labor due to tech as that is only true in one playstyle it is not in the other.




No child labor is not required. But its value is high in builds made around it. There is no this is the law you need. It depends on the build your going with. If the op dose not want to use child labor thats fine but needs to play a build made around not having it. Thou speaking of a new home survivor my build doesn't grab child labor till around law 6 for faith as pre that you really don't need the labor a new home you get labor so fast you will have people standing around early till you get the basic tech to give them jobs.

[amordron]

Originally posted by Cadelanne:

Originally posted by The Smily:

It is not necessary to go with child labor.
If you use emergency shift as first law and use them on the resource piles as a start. You should be able to use 4 of them without hitting max discontent.
If you chose extended shift next and then soup you have a good starting point. The timing is pretty close but it works.
Also don’t research saw mill just go for wall drill. You don’t need to rush it but don’t wait to long with it. Just keep an eye on your wood supply. And don’t be afraid to let your people work in cold environment. If you have 2 medical tents you will be able to deal with that in the beginning.
GL

Huh you do it on survivor mode ? Setting 2 emergency shifts almost sends me to 100% discontent already.

you get 3 emg shifts (2 wood 1 steel) on survivor day one. That dose not send you to 100% it sends you to about 80% (after telling them you wont stop emg shifts during the popup) than that falls to a reasonable level before you sign exteneded next. Allowing you to start using them right away.

You can use 4 but at that point you don't really have anyone to build over the night and puts you a bit high on discontent that it makes the rest of the early game a bit to painfull for me. The 4th if I use it is from using 1 day one and 3 day 2. This allows the first to be on a workshop without deaths.

[amordron]

Vf numbers you should be putting most of your post in spoiler tags the op asked us not to give the solution as it’s a puzzle game. I can see a lot of ways you can improve that build but won’t go into that as not going to derail his thread as again he asked us not to post said solution. If he wanted the solution just linking crystal daz would give it to him and a much better way as no offense meant the amount of med you mentioned needing shows you where way behind on tech due to wasted eng and having way to many sick vs the amount you should of had. Ulti if the build works it’s a good build in the end thou.

[rollin340]

Honestly, child labour is great for the early stages when you need to start the snowballing effect; the early resource gains is invaluable.

However, in the late game, having them in shelters assisting with research, or depending on the scenario, medical facilities, I personally feel is far better.

But there are times when that early start is just super hard without child labour; the amount of shifting workers at the right time is cumbersome.

If you think you can handle with discontent though, you could always use 24-hour shifts on resource pools. As long as it 24-hour shifts are not being used on any structure, nobody will die. Just make sure to use the first for that first Tech Lab cycle, let it complete, them use them on said resource pools. The discontent will stack up quick though, but the early resource gains might be worth it.

[SolusEmsu]

When I beat A New Home on Survivor, I think (save file is incompatible with current game version as it is a year old now, so going from memory here) I used Medical Apprentices with my children, because being able to 'churn' people out from the medical facilities faster is better than simply having more of them. Increasing the efficiency of your posts is how you recover and keep productivity up. Medic Apprentice + Organ Transplants is very good for this, often enough to get people back fast enough even to work a partial shift on their sick day.

*********
In my victory after several failed attempts I did also learn something else: Hunter's Huts are terribly inefficient on higher difficulties. I rushed hothouses and got the vegetarian achievement by accident on it.

Originally posted by amordron:

Hunter huts are 15 raw food per day not 11.

No, on Survivor hunter huts are 11 raw food per day. All resource-gathering is reduced on Survivor/Extreme mode. Hunter Huts are 15 normal, 17 easy, 13 hard, 11 extreme/survivor.

[大声道大家看到]

Child labor is not necessary in this scenario because 15/80 is not a relatively high ratio