Frostpunk

Frostpunk

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This loss felt a little cheap...
So I started playing Frost Punk for the first time last night. Really enjoying the game so far btw!
However...
After struggling a lot at the beginning of the game, I'd finally started to get things working well. We had a huge stockpile of coal, wood and steel, plenty of food for everyone, homes and workplaces were heated, kids had a shelter, the sick were being cared for, the dead had a cemetery and were given proper burials, all was going swell! But all because some guy showed up that told us some other city had fallen, hope dropped to the very bottom, and because I'd done all the good things that had made the city self-sufficient BEFORE this guy showed up, I had no real means to bring hope up to a level to prevent my banishment quick enough to prevent it.

It just feels kind of cheap. I had a fully functioning city where everything worked great and nobody suffered, but they kicked me out 'cos of one event that doesn't impact my city at all.

So my question is, are there particularly quick ways to regenerate hope in case this happens again? I'm a little put off knowing that I can be handed a cheap lose state like this.
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27 yorumdan 1 ile 15 arası gösteriliyor
You have to use faith/order laws to increase hope.
Faith is easier for a first playthrough.
Maintaining hope and managing discontent is all part of the challenge in each of the scenarios. I suggest you look closely at the bills you can pass for laws and the buildings.

Building enough houses of prayer or watchtowers/guard stations to cover people's homes will boost hope. Passing Morning gathering and building a temple will give you a permanent hope booster as well and propaganda will also do the same. Building shrines near workplaces and making sure every child has a place in child shelters.

Just to name a few at the top of my head. The specialized buildings for path of faith and order have boosters you can use like Ceremonial service, evening prayers, sermons and funerals for every death and public penance if you take the path of faith and patrols, issuing propaganda flyers and so on. Every promise you fulfill will also raise hope significantly.

Of course people will panic when they hear Winterhome has fallen, it doesn't exactly give people hope that they to can survive. Every time people are frightened or you break a promise, their hope will fall. They fear the storm, so of course they lose hope. Every time a child or an adult dies, cleric or guardsmen beaten, they will lose hope. If you make decisions that is unpopular, pass controversial law, use forceful persuasion or resort to triage then hope will fall.
İlk olarak Konachibi tarafından gönderildi:
So I started playing Frost Punk for the first time last night. Really enjoying the game so far btw!
However...
After struggling a lot at the beginning of the game, I'd finally started to get things working well. We had a huge stockpile of coal, wood and steel, plenty of food for everyone, homes and workplaces were heated, kids had a shelter, the sick were being cared for, the dead had a cemetery and were given proper burials, all was going swell! But all because some guy showed up that told us some other city had fallen, hope dropped to the very bottom, and because I'd done all the good things that had made the city self-sufficient BEFORE this guy showed up, I had no real means to bring hope up to a level to prevent my banishment quick enough to prevent it.

It just feels kind of cheap. I had a fully functioning city where everything worked great and nobody suffered, but they kicked me out 'cos of one event that doesn't impact my city at all.

So my question is, are there particularly quick ways to regenerate hope in case this happens again? I'm a little put off knowing that I can be handed a cheap lose state like this.

Watchtowers/Chapels - Make sure every home is covered by one of these. Watchtowers must be garrisoned. Then use church services and patrols.

Churches/Propaganda center - Build it and then use its abilities. This does it best

General laws - Save the cemetary law for when people actually die. Many like that boost hope.

Prevent deaths - Deaths cost alot of hope.
İlk olarak asarokk tarafından gönderildi:
Of course people will panic when they hear Winterhome has fallen, it doesn't exactly give people hope that they to can survive. Every time people are frightened or you break a promise, their hope will fall. They fear the storm, so of course they lose hope. Every time a child or an adult dies, cleric or guardsmen beaten, they will lose hope. If you make decisions that is unpopular, pass controversial law, use forceful persuasion or resort to triage then hope will fall.

Well that was the worst part of it. By the time they heard Winterhome had fallen, the hope bar was about 3/4s full. I'd never failed a request, and gave them everything they wanted all the time, discontent was at 0% when the news came. They had literally no reason whatsoever to panic, but all because some guy showed up and said a bad thing, my constantly prospering city where everyone lived comfortable lives suddenly freaked out like everything was going to hell.

That's why it felt like a cheap loss. It's like telling a millionaire that they've just been given a £50 parking fine and their response is to commit suicide for the loss of pocket change.
İlk olarak Konachibi tarafından gönderildi:
İlk olarak asarokk tarafından gönderildi:
Of course people will panic when they hear Winterhome has fallen, it doesn't exactly give people hope that they to can survive. Every time people are frightened or you break a promise, their hope will fall. They fear the storm, so of course they lose hope. Every time a child or an adult dies, cleric or guardsmen beaten, they will lose hope. If you make decisions that is unpopular, pass controversial law, use forceful persuasion or resort to triage then hope will fall.

Well that was the worst part of it. By the time they heard Winterhome had fallen, the hope bar was about 3/4s full. I'd never failed a request, and gave them everything they wanted all the time, discontent was at 0% when the news came. They had literally no reason whatsoever to panic, but all because some guy showed up and said a bad thing, my constantly prospering city where everyone lived comfortable lives suddenly freaked out like everything was going to hell.

That's why it felt like a cheap loss. It's like telling a millionaire that they've just been given a £50 parking fine and their response is to commit suicide for the loss of pocket change.

It doesn't matter how well you were doing, events are scripted and will cause hope to fall and even discontent to rise. It's your challenge to manage it.
İlk olarak Konachibi tarafından gönderildi:
İlk olarak asarokk tarafından gönderildi:
Of course people will panic when they hear Winterhome has fallen, it doesn't exactly give people hope that they to can survive. Every time people are frightened or you break a promise, their hope will fall. They fear the storm, so of course they lose hope. Every time a child or an adult dies, cleric or guardsmen beaten, they will lose hope. If you make decisions that is unpopular, pass controversial law, use forceful persuasion or resort to triage then hope will fall.

Well that was the worst part of it. By the time they heard Winterhome had fallen, the hope bar was about 3/4s full. I'd never failed a request, and gave them everything they wanted all the time, discontent was at 0% when the news came. They had literally no reason whatsoever to panic, but all because some guy showed up and said a bad thing, my constantly prospering city where everyone lived comfortable lives suddenly freaked out like everything was going to hell.

That's why it felt like a cheap loss. It's like telling a millionaire that they've just been given a £50 parking fine and their response is to commit suicide for the loss of pocket change.
Bro the Ultimatum for low Hope is two days, are you saying you did nothing for two whole days?🤨
İlk olarak Aturchomicz tarafından gönderildi:
Bro the Ultimatum for low Hope is two days, are you saying you did nothing for two whole days?🤨

There wasn't much I could do. As I said, I did everything I knew of to raise hope prior to the news arriving, so once it happened, I had no laws to choose or buildings to make that would raise it because I'd already done those things.
I made two house of prayer and conducted a sermon, but that wasn't enough to raise hope high enough to prevent the exile, so it felt like I was just locked in to a fail state because there was no way to generate enough hope to prevent it in time.

But this was my first time playing the game, there likely were things I could have done that I don't yet know about. It just felt bad that I went through all the early game struggles and finally got everything working right, only to lose because of some unexpected scripted event that I didn't seem to have any control over or way to get out of.
If you built the Houses of Prayer to cover most or all of your housing, all you really needed to do then was follow up with Evening Prayers in 36 hours and you probably would have been fine. As others said, it's scripted to where what you did prior doesn't really matter. Agree it's a little hamfisted to force you into Order/Faith, but it is what it is.

Actually it's better to sign any desired hope diminishing laws prior to Winterhome (Child Labour, Corpse Disposal, House of Pleasure, etc.), though it's really not necessary to metagame like that.
There's a lot of things you can do as we have suggested here but you just weren't doing anything apparently which lead to you failing the scenario. Think this is hard? Just wait until you try Fall of Winterhome scenario. Doesn't matter how many times you fail, you can learn from those mistakes and try again until you succeed.

Again, I repeat, it doesn't matter how well you are doing until scripted events occur, these events are part of the challenge and it's your task to make sure your people survive. Nothing about this post-apocalyptic world is fair, the clock is running out and the human race is on the brink of extinction. You can't only look at the present and what you can do in the "now", you have to think ahead, prepare yourself for the worst case scenarios and deal with every obstacle that comes along. In my opinion, that's the beauty of the game.
As I mentioned, I was doing things, it just wasn't enough to prevent the loss state. It's a learning process, and it was my first ever run. Just kinda pointing out that having an event that just goes "Oh you're doing great? Here's a fail state that no first timer could possibly avoid!" is a bit of a ♥♥♥♥ move. You mention worst case scenarios, and I've dealt with those. I had a scout party laden with hundreds of resources that i desperately needed all die in an attempt to save some survivors, I've had mass sickness reduce the number of workers which resulted in there not being enough coal to run the generator during a freeze period. All of these things I dealt with and recovered from, but this one event just says "All the hope you generated over the last couple of hours of playing is now gone and you need to make a load more within the next two in-game days or you lose! Screw you!".
Until Shining Hector mentioned it, I had no idea Evening Prayers were even a thing. I only discovered the Sermon option because I was just clicking about while I was waiting for the work day to start. If I'd known about them, I'd have avoided the fail state, but the faith system had just been dumped in to my lap, and then the game expects me to learn everything about it, build all the buildings I require and then utilise it all to prevent a fail state in a matter of minutes, when completely unprepared for it because it was my first run.

Shining Hector's advice was very useful though. It's nice knowing that anything I do leading up to that event has basically no consequences since once the fall of Winterhome happens, it practically resets the hope bar back to 0 and I have to build it all back up again. Guess the best move would be to simply make as few laws as possible before it happens so I can use it to boost hope up once it has. It really could have handled the introduction of order/faith better than just ditching the player in to a fail state in order to force it on them, because it doesn't leave a good impression on first time players. Why would you want to continue to play a game that essentially uses events as a way to cheat and make you lose, regardless of the progress you've made?

Not saying the game isn't fun, it's really fun, but pulling something like that on the player really cheapens the experience.
En son Konachibi tarafından düzenlendi; 26 Ara 2022 @ 11:32
Dude, just take a breath. It is what it is. The game was specifically made this way and everyone here was once a first time player, although I can't remember anyone with such a reaction before.

Btw, I did mention evening prayers before Shining Hector did (along with a few other things that raise hope) and I was also the first to mention that it doesn't matter how good you were doing before scripted events occur. Everyone here though have given you good input but it appears you've not read it through all that carefully. I hope you do know that it's actually possible to pause the time in the game, which you can use to inspect buildings and what functions they offer you as well as read about the laws. Had you done that, maybe you would have faired better on your first try.

You may not like having the rug pulled out from under you when the game throws wrenches in your plans, but that's exactly one of the reasons that made this game so successful. Since you dislike it so much, then maybe this game is not for you because I can tell you that the other scenarios will have similar things happening, sometime all at once like Fall of Winterhome.
I did know the pause function was there. The game plays like a few other colony sims I've played before. I've just never played one that throws away all manner of progress so suddenly just to force a new mechanic on the player and tell them to deal with it within a very small time limit or they lose.

And I apologise for not noticing that you had mentioned it beforehand. I am being as civil as I can here, it's just frustrating when I was having so much fun with the game for it to pull this kind of cheap trick for the sake of 'difficulty'. I'm not annoyed about it stripping away all of the hope bar I'd so carefully spent time building up, I'm annoyed that it demanded I learn a whole new mechanic with new buildings in such a short amount of time in order to prevent a loss caused by it doing that. If it had instead just caused people to leave if I didn't deal with it, that would have been fine, or if it had given a longer time limit than 2 days so the player has time to learn the new order/faith mechanics, construct the buildings and then utilise them, that would have been fine, but for it to give an instant game over with almost no time to learn what has just been dumped in your lap like that despite the fact that the city was still prospering was just dirty.
En son Konachibi tarafından düzenlendi; 26 Ara 2022 @ 16:09
Honestly I did find it a little cheap my first run, too. The whole wiping the slate clean mechanic is not really repeated in later scenarios, either, so I imagine others complained as well and they responded. You'll generally take a fixed hit to hope when bad things happen, not a flat "mark it zero".

The main benefit of "nice" laws (Child Shelters, Cemetery) is the boost in hope, which is pointless when it all gets wiped away in one fell swoop. You're in precisely the same spot after Winterhome whether you were a nice captain or not, so there's little reason to pick Child Shelters and Cemetery or to pass on House of Pleasure in A New Home.
I know you're frustrated, that would have been hard to miss. One day I hope you can appreciate how intricate this game is, such a complex game must have been difficult to make. Much harder to make than to play, I'm sure. And the developers definitely never intended to make any of this easy, in fact it would be strange if it was too easy.

I wish I could tell you why they waited to introduce purpose (the path of faith or order) to the game in New Hope, but it is what it is. Two days however is more than enough to raise hope again using the means we have advised. As long as you inspect every law and every building you will increase your chances to succeed. Anything else is trial and error.

If you consider that dirty however, I fear you won't like it once you have run out of time when the great frost storm hits. How you prepare with the time you've been given is detrimental whether or not you actually manage to survive the great frost at the end of the scenario. It's very likely that most players were not able to survive it the first time despite all their preparations because the storm is brutal.
Oh for sure, I can't imagine programming any of this was in any way easy to do. The way it handles snow generation and pathing is quite impressive, and it's damn pretty to look at too. Honestly I can't really fault it aside from two things. One was this particular occurrence we've been discussing, and the other is that, as great as the soundtrack is, it's also really depressing to listen to. I mean, I get that the theme of the game kind of demands a grim soundtrack, but for the whole soundtrack to be like that kinda makes it grind on the nerves after a while, though that's obviously a nitpick that's easily rectified with playing other music while the game is on.

As for the great frost storm, I expect as much that it'll be a very difficult challenge. In a weird kind of way I get similar vibes from this as I get from FTL, where reaching the end is only part of the struggle, and the big finale is the true challenge to overcome, and all the choices and events that have happened up till then have hardened the player to prepare them for it. That's a potential fail state looming over me that I know is coming and can expect to have happen, and from the sounds of it, the introduction of the purpose mechanic is the only event that's going to pull a cheap trick on me, so I'm sure once I get past it I'll be having a lot more fun.
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Gönderilme Tarihi: 26 Ara 2022 @ 5:54
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