Initial Generator range should be 2 rings out, not 1

[konzacelt]

For something as massive as the generator tower, I think the initial range should be the equivalent of lvl 2 range. This would make the final range tier 5 rings instead of 4.

Reasons being the immediately adjacent area is unusable for all sorts of reasons (event location, non-housed sleep area, etc.), and the fact that part of the 1st ring is also unusable due to the supply cache. It also just makes more engineering sense, a steam hubs base range is wider than the main generator at lvl 1...that shouldn't be the case given that it's like 1/10 the size.

I feel like more emphasis should be placed on building around the core structure, instead of placing dozens of hubs around the periphery. Steam hubs should be used more for remote resource areas, and not so much as a standard addition to the perimeter of the central heat core.

[Darkstrong]

The thing is, I came to see the discovery of new technologies to as much of a research, but as engineers, going through already available schematics and manuals. Some of the technologies are really simple, you don't need to "research" how to build bunk houses. And other a too difficult to research in just a couple of days. That being said, the generators initial range is 4, it is just your engineers who don't know, or don't risk turning it to higher gear, until they go through the manuals

[konzacelt]

I can buy that immersive explanation. But then that doesn't explain how those same scientists just "know" how to design and build a steam hub (same lvl 1 tech tier) that instantly has a better heat range somehow. It's like they can't yet fully figure out the giant generator, but they can create this micro-version of it that is way more efficient? Doesn't make sense.

[Darkstrong]

The steam hub is just a hub, it doesn't provide heat, it just pumps steam further. So this makes sense too. Steam hub is just a relay pump, pretty simple. Generator is this, and more, so the operating and regulation is much more complex

[LittleBlueDuneBuggy]

Originally posted by Darkstrong:

The steam hub is just a hub, it doesn't provide heat, it just pumps steam further. So this makes sense too. Steam hub is just a relay pump

Huh?

[Darkstrong]

Originally posted by LittleBlueDuneBuggy:

Originally posted by Darkstrong:

The steam hub is just a hub, it doesn't provide heat, it just pumps steam further. So this makes sense too. Steam hub is just a relay pump

Huh?

All the heat in the game is produced in the generator only, and then sent through the pipes all over the town (you can see the pipes along the roads. Steam hubs do not produce the steam, they just receive it from the generator through those pipes, and send it to nearby buildings

[Funky UserName]

the range upgrade is the worst upgrade available, totally useless

[LittleBlueDuneBuggy]

Originally posted by Darkstrong:

Originally posted by LittleBlueDuneBuggy:

Huh?

All the heat in the game is produced in the generator only, and then sent through the pipes all over the town (you can see the pipes along the roads. Steam hubs do not produce the steam, they just receive it from the generator through those pipes, and send it to nearby buildings

They also generate heat in a radius around them. They don't just "extend" the heat. You can heat buildings with no hubs at all. The steam pipes are built into the road. I've beaten the crap out of this game, and I never research the upgraded rings on the generator unless I've just got nothing better to do.

[konzacelt]

Originally posted by Darkstrong:

Originally posted by LittleBlueDuneBuggy:

Huh?

All the heat in the game is produced in the generator only, and then sent through the pipes all over the town (you can see the pipes along the roads. Steam hubs do not produce the steam, they just receive it from the generator through those pipes, and send it to nearby buildings

That's obviously true, but it still doesn't make sense that a little steam hub can project heat as far or farther than the generator itself. Even accounting for, say, having the bulk of the generator's size be for heat production and not projection, it still doesn't seem reasonable.

[konzacelt]

Originally posted by LittleBlueDuneBuggy:

Originally posted by Darkstrong:

All the heat in the game is produced in the generator only, and then sent through the pipes all over the town (you can see the pipes along the roads. Steam hubs do not produce the steam, they just receive it from the generator through those pipes, and send it to nearby buildings

They also generate heat in a radius around them. They don't just "extend" the heat. You can heat buildings with no hubs at all. The steam pipes are built into the road. I've beaten the crap out of this game, and I never research the upgraded rings on the generator unless I've just got nothing better to do.

Building heaters are great, but all residential buildings can't use them. I agree it's kind of odd that the game is easier to beat without touching generator range. Another reason why the base generator range should start at level two: with 5 rings you could fit a lot more stuff in that central heat zone and not need nearly as many hubs. Especially for maps like Canyon where space is limited anyway.

I kind of wish they went one way or the other with this. Like either the generator is only for steam production and has no heat range, and all buildings have heaters; or no buildings have heaters and only the generator and hubs can emit heat. The way it is now houses are the only things that need any outside heat, which is kind of odd if you think about it.

[LittleBlueDuneBuggy]

Originally posted by konzacelt:

Originally posted by Darkstrong:

All the heat in the game is produced in the generator only, and then sent through the pipes all over the town (you can see the pipes along the roads. Steam hubs do not produce the steam, they just receive it from the generator through those pipes, and send it to nearby buildings

That's obviously true, but it still doesn't make sense that a little steam hub can project heat as far or farther than the generator itself. Even accounting for, say, having the bulk of the generator's size be for heat production and not projection, it still doesn't seem reasonable.

Think about radiant heat in a house. You have a boiler, and it goes to a radiator in each room. The boiler is the generator. The radiators are the steam hubs.

[konzacelt]

Originally posted by LittleBlueDuneBuggy:

Originally posted by konzacelt:

That's obviously true, but it still doesn't make sense that a little steam hub can project heat as far or farther than the generator itself. Even accounting for, say, having the bulk of the generator's size be for heat production and not projection, it still doesn't seem reasonable.

Think about radiant heat in a house. You have a boiler, and it goes to a radiator in each room. The boiler is the generator. The radiators are the steam hubs.

Right but it's done that way because:

1) A house is sectioned off. If all the walls were taken out you would only need the heat coming off the boiler. That's why older homesteads were built around a central fireplace with few or no interior walls. Modern radiators only exist because modern humans want to be able to have the heat in each room adjusted to their liking, otherwise we would use simple piping and ducts to convey all that heat to each room. Modern interior walls, while not exactly insulated, do serve to help regulate room temp.

2) The generator is supposed to be this monstrous steam marvel that can counteract temps below -100C, out in the open tundra mind you. Comparing it to a house furnace is not exactly the same thing. Modern houses only have to deal with a much much smaller heat differential than the frozen apocalypse that is Frostpunk.

Personally I find it a little strange that the thing puts out a lot of radial heat at all in that kind of environment. I would think any small wind would disrupt that heat projection, and a blizzard should render it completely obsolete. But it's a core mechanic of the game, so it has to be considered a "logical" mechanic within the Frostpunk universe. Like I stated earlier, I'd rather they had made it either only a steam generator (with perhaps a 1-2 ring heat projection range max) with building radiators providing all the heat. Or have no building radiators at all and you have to rely only on the generator and hubs for any heat. The way it is now, the hubs are so much more efficient and cost effective that you don't even need to think about generator heat range.

[LittleBlueDuneBuggy]

Originally posted by konzacelt:

1) A house is sectioned off. If all the walls were taken out you would only need the heat coming off the boiler. That's why older homesteads were built around a central fireplace with few or no interior walls. Modern radiators only exist because modern humans want to be able to have the heat in each room adjusted to their liking. Modern interior walls, while not exactly insulated, do serve to help regulate room temp.

Now take the room with the central fireplace, and make it a lot bigger. Wouldn't it be nice to have a few more heaters scattered around?

[konzacelt]

Originally posted by LittleBlueDuneBuggy:

Originally posted by konzacelt:

1) A house is sectioned off. If all the walls were taken out you would only need the heat coming off the boiler. That's why older homesteads were built around a central fireplace with few or no interior walls. Modern radiators only exist because modern humans want to be able to have the heat in each room adjusted to their liking. Modern interior walls, while not exactly insulated, do serve to help regulate room temp.

Now take the room with the central fireplace, and make it a lot bigger. Wouldn't it be nice to have a few more heaters scattered around?

Of course it would. :) But the game is more like if you took all the walls and roof off entirely, and you have to huddle in a little shed either hoping the generator heat will reach you through the walls, or turn on a little funace in the shed. Let's be honest, projecting heat outdoors in a blizzard is beyond silly. But the game is what it is and outdoor heat projection in a frozen wasteland, while nonsensical to anyone who understands basic thermodynamics, "works" in Frostpunk. :)

[LittleBlueDuneBuggy]

Originally posted by konzacelt:

Originally posted by LittleBlueDuneBuggy:

Now take the room with the central fireplace, and make it a lot bigger. Wouldn't it be nice to have a few more heaters scattered around?

Of course it would. :) But the game is more like if you took all the walls and roof off entirely, and you have to huddle in a little shed either hoping the generator heat will reach you through the walls, or turn on a little funace in the shed. Let's be honest, projecting heat outdoors in a blizzard is beyond silly. But the game is what it is and outdoor heat projection in a frozen wasteland, while nonsensical to anyone who understands basic thermodynamics, "works" in Frostpunk. :)

Oh, I agree. I think if the generator, and the hubs produced enough heat at -100C to radiate far enough to be usable, they would cook anyone that got near them. Like a bonfire on the beach. Perfectly fine from 30 - 50' away. Any farther, and you freeze your balls off. Any closer, and you might as well just jump in.

[konzacelt]

Originally posted by LittleBlueDuneBuggy:

Originally posted by konzacelt:

Of course it would. :) But the game is more like if you took all the walls and roof off entirely, and you have to huddle in a little shed either hoping the generator heat will reach you through the walls, or turn on a little funace in the shed. Let's be honest, projecting heat outdoors in a blizzard is beyond silly. But the game is what it is and outdoor heat projection in a frozen wasteland, while nonsensical to anyone who understands basic thermodynamics, "works" in Frostpunk. :)

Oh, I agree. I think if the generator, and the hubs produced enough heat at -100C to radiate far enough to be usable, they would cook anyone that got near them. Like a bonfire on the beach. Perfectly fine from 30 - 50' away. Any farther, and you freeze your balls off. Any closer, and you might as well just jump in.

Yeah, that's a really good argument for not having the generator emit heat at all, just have it produce steam to be piped away. One day when they implement mods there should be a scenario where anyone who sleeps on the ground next to the generator has a chance of randomly bursting into flames. :P