Builder Endless Mode EXTREME (anyone beat that and can give me tips?)

[Fatsch]

I have beaten almost every other scenario in Frostpunkt but this one takes the cake.
My settings are hard without the settlements and sudden impacts.

Whatever I do, I cant seem to get past the first storm. I tried every possible order of research that you could do (besides prioritising stuff like outpost, gathering and sawmill, etc.), but I can´t seem to get ahold of the MASSIVE amounts of sick people, there´s just too many!
After about day 7 or so my workforce starts to dwindle and there´s nothing I can do. Balancing the discontent with getting refugees early or later makes no difference, as well as the laws (which I oriented myself at getting medical post overfilled and emergency shift ofc).

SO HELP ME GOD, IF ANYONE HAS BEATEN THIS TAKE THE GRACE AND HELP ME FFS!

At this point I´m actually about to give up, after I tried it for days but can´t get the hang of the beginning.

P.S.: Please, give me a thorough answer. Answers like "place more workers on wood" is not really helpful in this matter, since I´m not asking for the obvious

[Lord Dem]

https://youtu.be/eyI98aFSrc4

Depends on the map and knowing have a good understanding of heat levels. Personally I don't bother to send scouts out until the 1st storm passes.

What bottlenecks you in Extreme difficulty is research above all. You can get away with it with just 2 or 3 Workshops. Any workshop more than that is kind of a waste in my opinion.

Now for tips:

You want your research up ASAP. Make sure to get a workshop or two first thing up and put it on an emergency shift to rush through some research. My usual start research is Faster Gathering -> Hunters Gear -> Sawmills -> Heaters then move long to Tier 2 and so on.

By default you have more resources on the floor to gather in Builders than other modes. So have that in mind with your research.

If the game starts at -30 make sure to have people working in gathering posts asap to avoid getting too many sick people.

Personally I don't start construction of any material for the gen until 2nd Storm and I prefer to manufacture ALL that I need to construct the generator before starting assembly. This helps a lot with the toxic levels as you can simply do the construction linearly without wasting time to make material, need space for ventilation plants and manufacturing plants and have an abundance of people.

I stop scouting for survivors when I reach about 250-300 people because that's all you need to construct the generator.

By Day 50 you should be on your last construction stage or have the generator completed otherwise you will start having people dead in the other storm as your medical facilities won't be able to operate without an extra heat zone and also the storms start becoming 2 day storms instead of 1 day storms.

Focus a lot primarily on getting heat insulation and housing up for your people for the first 2 storms alongside resources.

Try to exchange 24 hour shifts between workshops to have non stop research.

It is certainly doable but is called extreme for a reason. Good Luck.

[Fatsch]

Thanks a lot!

This was actually the last straw I intended to follow NOT to scout for more people before the first storm, because this would be the only major change left to try.
Thanks for the tip, I´ll definetely try that, should work like you said, only challenge then really is to battle the discontent because of the emergency shifts but that seems doable.

Cheers again!

[Lord Dem]

Discontent is quite simple to manage to be honest and kind of abusable. If you look at discontent as a resource, if you go with Order, Discontent really is a non issue because it lowers automatically everyday with people living around guard stations.

With Faith you need a bit more work with Faith Keepers, Fighting Arenas, Pub, Moonshine but still dooable.

Just get over that you have to have that emergency shift death and you'll be fine.

I did a run last night actually at Canyon map builders with Faith. Stopped scouting at 300 people and all my production and everything went fine, Completed generator Day 52 which allowed me to research for steamhubs to handle the next storm.

With Order in normal maps (not rifts) I usually complete the generator around day 42-45 depending so before the first 2 day storm because of the productivity Order gives you with Foreman and Agitators.

Good luck with your run and don't despair you'll do it in the end you'll see :)

[Fatsch]

Originally posted by Lord Dem:

Discontent is quite simple to manage to be honest and kind of abusable. If you look at discontent as a resource, if you go with Order, Discontent really is a non issue because it lowers automatically everyday with people living around guard stations.

With Faith you need a bit more work with Faith Keepers, Fighting Arenas, Pub, Moonshine but still dooable.

Just get over that you have to have that emergency shift death and you'll be fine.

I did a run last night actually at Canyon map builders with Faith. Stopped scouting at 300 people and all my production and everything went fine, Completed generator Day 52 which allowed me to research for steamhubs to handle the next storm.

With Order in normal maps (not rifts) I usually complete the generator around day 42-45 depending so before the first 2 day storm because of the productivity Order gives you with Foreman and Agitators.

Good luck with your run and don't despair you'll do it in the end you'll see :)

Thanks!

Actually the discontent is in fact a problem, although only in the first 10 days or so, after that it is manageable in whatever scenario you´re in. Just in hard mode in builder endless map it´s getting quite close to throwing you out it seems.
Followed the advice of the previous answer and am doing fine on day 32 :)

[HiawataUK]

Seems you already got some good answers, but here's my two cents.

First, as others have mentioned, you want to treat discontent as a renewable resource. Use it for emergency shifts, extended shifts, overcrowding, refusing demands, etc., to get things done more quickly.

Second, you want to focus on building up a strong economy before even starting to research and build the generator. Builders mode actually allows you to very, very easily build up a strong economy, as it starts you off with a ton of resources and more people than the other modes.

Third, don't start building the generator until after the third storm. You'd assume that in this scenario the goal would be to get the generator running as fast as possible, but the storms are easily survivable if you focus on your economy.

OK, so, for more concrete steps. I'm doing this more from memory, so the timings may be a bit off, but the timeline is correct. This is assuming you start on -20 degrees, and that you have random hazards on. If you start on -30, nothing fundamental changes, but I'll mention this at the end.

I've roughly divided the tips/guide into days.

Right off the bat, pass Emergency Shifts. Then, put workers on three piles of wood and put them all on emergency shifts. Put the remaining workers on other wood piles, but leave 25 engineers and 5 workers free. Immediately build 3 workshops. The 25 engineers and 5 workers will go and build them. As soon as they are done, put engineers in them, and have everyone remaining gather wood. Start researching Drawing Boards.

At the end of the working hours on the first day, build tents for all your people, two medical posts, a cookhouse, and enough gathering posts to employ everyone. During the night, you'll get to pick your second law, so go for extended shifts, and put all workplaces on extended shifts. If that would bring you to over 100% discontent, you can keep a few normal shifts on your steel or coal collection.

Let the second day just run and the resources pile up. Obviously, move all your workers to gathering posts and off the resources piles (except the ones on the 24h shifts, whom you should move after their shift is done). Choose Hothouses as your second tech. It's been a while since I played Endless Builders, but I think you should be able to finish Hothouses research during the day. At the end of the day, build a few more medical posts if you need them. They don't need to all be staffed fully; you just need to keep all (or most) of your sick in sick beds. However, during the night, do move your engineers out of the workshops and into the medical posts, to keep them running at higher efficiency. Just don't forget to put them back into the workshops before the start of the work shift. Also, build 3 Hothouses during the night as well. Take Radical Treatment as the next law.

On the third day, choose Beacon to research and let the resources gather. Make sure your Hothouses are staffed, though as the resources piles disappear and gathering posts don't have anything to do, you shouldn't have a labor shortage. Once Beacon is done, build one, and send a scout team out. Focus on finding more survivors. Choose Medical Post Upgrade as the next tech. Otherwise, just let resources pile up, and if you need to, build a resource depot. Take Overcrowding as your next law.

On the fourth day, it's more of the same. Gather resources during the day. Once Medical Post Upgrade is done, research Wall Drill, or, if the temperature drops will make your hothouses and medical posts unusable, go for heaters instead. Pick Corpse Disposal as your next law. Once you have that law, always have one workshop working 24h shifts. Never accept the demands to stop the Emergency Shifts, and once you come to the demand that asks for food in return for Emergency Shifts, accept it, and that will prevent any future deaths.

After about the fourth day, you should do the following. Go for the following techs: heaters (or wall drills, depending on what you researched first on the previous day) - drafting machines - infirmary - steelworks - improved heater - healthcare insulation - bunkhouse. Obviously, build the wall drills and the steelworks when you research them.

It's imperative that you have both infirmaries, improved heaters, and healthcare insulation before the first storm, because that will allow you infirmaries to be operational during the storm. So, if you need to delay some techs to get that, delay the steelworks.

Your scouts should also be returning with some survivors during this period. Just build enough medical posts for all of them. Again, they don't need to be fully staffed, just operational. You'll also have enough wood, so you can deconstruct one Wall Drill to use the steam core to make an infirmary instead. It makes a world of difference for treating your sick.

In terms of laws, go for: food additives - neighbourhood watch - guard stations - patrol. Use patrol every time it comes off cooldown, and that will more or less eliminate your discontent problems, and allow you to keep using emergency shifts on your workshops constantly.

During the night before the first storm, deconstruct your hothouses, and build three infirmaries. Together with the one you built before, they should easily take care of the sick you'll get. Build four hunters huts - that is in case you get rotting roots after the storm. If you have researched bunkhouses, build them as and when you can. Still, unlike what one might assume, they're not imperative at all. People will still be freezing in them, and you'll be relying on your infirmaries to take care of the sick. Bunkhouses are more for after the storm, to reduce the number of sick you'll be getting during normal weather.

After you survive the first storm, and once most of the sick are dealt with, deconstruct three infirmaries and rebuild one wall drill. Assuming you did not get rotting roots, also build two hothouses and use a combination of hothouses and hunters huts for your food. If you did get rotting roots, obviously just use your hunter huts until the random hazard passes.

The idea now is to set up your economy to be as strong as possible and to quickly treat any sick people. For that purpose, the focus is on getting the techs that will improve your resource collection, and on finding more survivors and steam cores. You should be able to do all of the below by around the second storm, or a bit after it, as long as you always keep at least one workshop going on a 24h shift. Depending on your discontent, you should even be able to keep two going a lot of the time.

Go for the following techs: steam steelworks - more scouts - lighter scout sleds - hunters gear - hunting tactics - flying hunters - coal thumper - steam coal thumper - mechanical calculators - difference engine - advanced steelworks - additional scouts - flying hunters' gear - faster gathering - resource depot upgrade - gathering post insulation - efficient gathering - advanced heaters - heater efficiency upgrade - houses - house redesign. This should allow you to get more survivors and steam cores, it will boost your food production (and allow you to switch between hothouses and hunting depending on hazards), you can start gathering and piling up coal, your steel production will shoot through the roof, you can keep everything warm, you can treat your sick quickly, and you can build up enough resource storage to pile up all your resources.

Obviously, if you got rotting roots, prioritise the hunting techs first. Conversely, if you got the random hazard that reduces the efficiency of hunting, delay the hunting techs. I wouldn't bother with industrial hothouses and steam wall drills. Two wall drills give you more than enough wood income. Industrial hothouses are good if you are having labor shortages or if you are having trouble keeping ordinary hothouses warm, neither of which should be an issue.

Don't rush building houses. Wait til you have the house redesign tech. Like before, it's not a problem if you get to the second storm without houses - you will again be relying on treating the sick quickly, not preventing people from falling ill in the first place.

In terms of laws, go for: morning gathering - foreman (and use foreman on your workshops) - propaganda centre (keep a few engineers in this and use it) - agitator - child labour - organ transplants - fighting arena - public house - moonshine - duelling law - house of pleasure. If you happen to get a lot of kids, perhaps take child labour sooner, though I don't think you get that many, and you won't be lacking workers anyway.

Overall, with the set-up I described above, by around the second storm, you should have a couple of hundred people, efficient treatment of the sick, really solid resources incomes, and a ton of resources stored already. Only then do you start working on the generator.

Research-wise, go for: profiles manufacture - ventilation plant - ventilation plant coupling - machine shop - foundry. With your resource incomes, the resources you piled up til around the second storm, and with all the workers you brought in, you should be able to very quickly go through the various stages, and to keep two ventilation plants running all the time you need them. Strictly speaking, I don't think you even need the additional safety techs, because with the rate at which you will be going through the stages, you will quickly eliminate the toxic gases, and two ventilations plants will be enough. Also, with all your resources, you don't strictly need the techs that reduce the cost of building things in the profiles manufacture, machine shop, and the foundry, but you can get those if you want. One thing, though - don't forget to use Emergency Shifts and Foreman on the actual construction of the generator parts.

You should probably be able to finish the generator (or most of it) before the third storm hits, or a bit after it. I don't think there's any need to go into what you should do afterwards.

So, essentially, the guiding principle in everything I wrote above is - focus on building up a very strong economy, getting additional survivors, and on being able to quickly treat the sick, before you start researching and working on the generator. The absolute ton of resources you start with should make this an easy task.

Finally, obviously the RNG can mess you up a little bit in all I wrote above. You might get the "steam cores seizing" random hazard, for instance, or not find that many workers or steam cores, or start at -30. But, if that happens, it's not too difficult to deal with. Research and build what you need to in order to counter the hazard. For instance, research sawmills and build a ton of medical posts, if you get the steam cores seizing hazard. Or, if you start at -30 degrees, build gathering posts on the first day and also probably 3 or 4 instead of 2 medical posts during the first night. But, don't worry about whether any of these adaptations will delay your work on the generator, as you have plenty of spare time to finish it. The only thing you must ensure is that you can treat the sick during and after the storms.

Hope this helps!