Install Steam
login
|
language
简体中文 (Simplified Chinese)
繁體中文 (Traditional Chinese)
日本語 (Japanese)
한국어 (Korean)
ไทย (Thai)
Български (Bulgarian)
Čeština (Czech)
Dansk (Danish)
Deutsch (German)
Español - España (Spanish - Spain)
Español - Latinoamérica (Spanish - Latin America)
Ελληνικά (Greek)
Français (French)
Italiano (Italian)
Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
Magyar (Hungarian)
Nederlands (Dutch)
Norsk (Norwegian)
Polski (Polish)
Português (Portuguese - Portugal)
Português - Brasil (Portuguese - Brazil)
Română (Romanian)
Русский (Russian)
Suomi (Finnish)
Svenska (Swedish)
Türkçe (Turkish)
Tiếng Việt (Vietnamese)
Українська (Ukrainian)
Report a translation problem
It has little point for us to just post a great build to copy better to see what your doing and improve it leaving you with the puzzle of improving it from there.
But the big tips I’ll give are.
Don’t make the gen pre first storm just forget it exists. You want to be stable and in a good place before you start there is time after first storm to make it hell if you get in a good place you can even on the highest diff get to a point the worst storms kill sub 50 people finding 100 new a storm for stable growth. The first three storms should kill no one at all if built right.
Go faith. Order thou possible is significantly harder in builders and just not really worth when new. House of healing is just to good to pass up with field kitchen acting as a t1 gen for workplaces to boot for more heat. House of healing can and should be up storm 1.
Child labor
Radical
Overcrowding
Hothouse
Thumper
Walldrill
Use only one source of coal once source of food to save tech and work the above tech and laws into your build for a eaiser time as they work well together.
Better heaters should be a prio not so much better insulation as it’s global.
Don’t worry about bunkhouses pre first storm as will not help much, use extended shift everywhere you can for that day to get people in warmer workplaces longer to reduce sick. You must shut down hunters each storm hothouse you can leave staffed but best to move them as wasted labor. Unlike hunters hothouses stays warm durring storm due to heaters. Do build the ones you can thou if not on rifts norm I can get all bunks pre storm 1 and houses after but don’t need to stress yourself to be full bunks if behind so long as you got enough house of healing and keep people at work.
There is a setting to start the game with a intact gen called endurance or serenity mode. There both the same thing but you start with a gen serenity is a bit better start endurance you start with less supply’s and people but a gen. Everything else is the same well plus builders dosent have relics.
Just dont make your people work during the storms if the work places are not heated (you can use the faith kitchen to heat some workplaces).
The workplaces will be warmer than the houses almost for sure. Workplaces have at min one insulation and one from heater of he dosent have heater that’s an issue. Ideally heater lvl 2. As such unless he has houses workplaces will be warmer but if you got houses should have heater t3 as same tier making workplaces warmer again.
Basicly at no point should workplaces be colder than homes and shouldent be gathering from piles other than day 1 even than you can have posts up day 1 and should.
But the temp and storms will be colder, builder mode is actually easier than endurance: just dont build the gen before the first storm, focus on ressources and heat.
I had maxed out hope and had 0 discontent and went for the hunters (maxing them) I was able to support a population of 320 with 4 upgraded hunters each staffed with 10 people (the scouts bringing extra from time to time).
I had 4 infirmaries fully staffed but I had 240 sick after the second storm, was this just bad luck?
I had lvl 2 heaters in all the workplaces yet they were all freezing. I don't understand what I did wrong, I might have been able to replace the infirmaries with houses of healing but as far as I can understand infirmaries are better. I also used overcrowding.
The reason I was so frustrated is that it seemed completely random, the temps went down to a similar lvl in my first storm and lost 0 people but the second one halved my entire population.
I did basically everything you recommended except child labour, hothouse, radical. (I went for care houses)
I guess I just got a bad roll :-/
I will preface this with the options you picked do work but that make it harder due to below as such this is written in regards to making it as easy as possible not that there the only way. I would give advice to make your build work better but as you haven't really told us what you kinda did such as a tech order and law order or better screens cant really see where stuff was "wasted" vs highly effective to boost other areas in order to make other builds possible, so can only address what you mentioned as don't just want to post a full build.
Infirmaries eat up all your cores. This will not only put you behind on make the gen later as you need the cores for than but also lead to one of the problems you faced being understaffed due to the cores NOT being used to boost production. As such needing more staff to do the same. While using eng slowing tech speed down in your case thats 20 eng that could be used to boost tech by 40% base which is vary significant in a mode that tech advantage makes night and day easier. By using house of healing + child labor all those eng are moved into tech for a missive boost while costs you NO extra labor as the children are "free" labor at that point as in your case dint have child labor. On top this is a LARGER tech AND medical boost than BOTH child apprentice laws at the same time. As house of healing is not limited by cores you can place FAR more people into them at once and even if you get 240 sick you can handle it. A house of healing is only 4 hours longer in the time to cure not really a big loss when the issue is getting everyone treatment not time to heal.
Infirmary's are ONLY better in healing time by 4 hours. They are WORSE in every other way possible. Esp the most important thing they take CORES this eats up your production making you understaffed in other areas the vary issue you had. While they take eng to staff them not anything eng are your most important workforce as tech is the bread and butter of the game taking people away from tech is bad. Infirmarys should only be used when you 1) have spare cores with NO other good use 2) have enough beds for EVERYONE that is sick every time. If you EVER have more people sick than beds the boosted cure time of infirmrys is LESS important than the abilty to get people into beds. While infirmrys cost you TECH to unlock further setting you behind on tech (med tech you really only want for storm 4+ to get med insulation to keep house of healing open). Yes they are better when strictly looking at getting people out but that is rarely what makes the diff between live and die.
240 sick is NOT bad luck. You had a ton of sick since you did not reduce the sick you would get via getting people OUT of there homes NOT in. While having t3 heaters that should always be there for storm 2. Storm 2 on extreme about 100-130 is normal for me that is dealt with within 1 day 0 deaths via 6 house of healing (2 kept always staffed 4 staffed via swaping people from hothouse to them + other sources).
4 hunters maxed (I assume not having the flying hunter upgrade as that would mean your t4 and if so you would have heaters t3 as should be gotten instantly once t4 its your most important tech) can support a pop of 320 that means you where on normal and meant you had hangers + sawdust. That would still mean using sawdust thou as with soup would only support 300 pop. Using sawdust is fine on this mode IF and ONLY if you know how to handle sick it is still a better law than soup but thats ONLY if you are using the discontent saved by not using soup. In your case you said you had no discontent that means you are NOT using the discontent and as such soup would of been a much better law. The power of sawdust comes from saving on discontent to get MORE extended shifts to make up the loss of workforce due to the extra sick. If your not using that discontent meaning staying at 50% or greater discontent you are wasting the advantage of signing sawdust and should just sign soup esp in a map that already is sick heavy.
To further on food. Hothouses would of fed that same 320 pop using SOUP not sawdust with a single industrial hothouse and one normal hothouse on extended shift (with shrine nearby which you should have as req to get house of healing). If using sawdust a single industrial hothouse would of fed 301 people alone. vs needing 3.5 hunters hangers to get the same level of food. this is 35 WORKERS vs 10 kids/workers/eng. As again child labor gives you a ton of free workforce you are in effect saving 35 workers right there at the cost of only 2 steam cores that you saved via using house of healing. Hunters further cost you tech you needed 4 tech to max those hunters while hothouse only needed 2 in this example further letting you get other more important tech such as lvl 3 heaters. + the 3 tech saved via not get med tech for a total of 5 tech so far that could of got you better prodution (and as such better insulation for them via not taking passive production boost by higher tier buildings avoid the passives you want the better buildings that give more productions and insulation as one tech), heaters lvl 3 and higher tech tiers.
Child labor further solves all your coal issues as you don't need much coal 1 thumper is norm enough for a long time so 40 kids and 10 workers and your done. thats only 50 kids needed for food + coal easy to do when its not uncommon to have 60-70 by time your at 320 pop. Leaving you a ton of workers to build the gen + get steel. All your eng go into tech for a massive tech lead. While being able to keep enough house of healing to bed everyone.
That goes into the next point care house is crap so is sustain life there never worth. Its cheap and easy to deal with amps late game if you want to and early game giving up beds for sick just snowballs you into a bad place. Overcrowding stops grav ill in the first place by making you have enough beds with a single house of healing holding 20 so only need 5 to deal with a massive 100 people. While radical gets them out of the beds while 2/3 of the time back to work. Carehouses really should only be used to deal with amps once you get more than a few read like 5 as amps don't take beds even.
By 2nd storm you need a min lvl 3 heaters. If your houses are still TENTS your fine can still do the storm without a single death. What matters is being able to get all the sick into house of healing that doesn't shut down and keeping them out of there houses as long as possible. Thou having only tents will mean a few amps you want houses to prevent amps and are quite possible to have.
That would be a bad thing to do.
As you said you had heaters lvl 2. Unless you had houses with + insulation in which case no reason you wouldn't have heaters lvl 3 your workplaces would of been at MIN +2 heat from heaters and +1 heat from base. This means unless houses are +3 heat (house tier no extra insulation) there only equal. As such removing them from workplaces is a LOSS of production for no reason what so ever, while the house being colder than there workplaces (likely) you increased the amount of sick you got by doing so. Cold workplaces are 100% fine compared to even colder homes or even equally cold homes. The workplaces that shutdown when not at chilly (cookhouse) the people also don't go there so don't need to remove them if you want them in homes. Only hunters/hothouse are the odd ones out as they still go there but just cant leave the city as the building is not shutdown only production is, but hothouse will turn the heater on.
On top t2 workplaces have lvl 2 insulation making them equal to houses with insulation upgrade. You can further raise this with field kitchen but going to assume you din't but it makes it so even workplaces with 1 insulation base is at least equal to a maxed out house as heaters should be gotten before houses as if you keep med open it doesn't matter how cold the houses get.
Only workplaces that are shutdown should have people moved out of and NOT to there homes but to another workplace, homes are the WORST place to have people other than piles. You want them working on extended shift where possible to keep them out of there homes as much as possible, you should not have 0 discontent that means you are leaving a TON of production and sickness reduction on the table. You want discontent to be around 50-70% norm, discontent is a resource as much as any other. Eg hothouses move them into house of healing. No reason to keep them there when its shutdown put them to use in med when your about to get a sick spike to boost beds. Another reason why house of healing is better than infiarmy as you can easy boost numbers it with spare labor.
Well that got long hope some of that helps in your next run. You don't need to follow any of it either for the next run just take screens so people can see what your doing and give better advice to improve your build vs a set way.
I just did an Extreme Rifts Builders run and finished the Generator Day 35 by running Discontent extremely hot. Like literally every day threats to overthrow me. You'd think they'd throw me out for good after the 10th time or so.
The thing to remember is Extended Shifts raise Discontent a small amount and keep it there as long as they're on, while Emergency Shifts raise it a lot immediately which tapers off and disappears as people forget about it. So you can and should be using an Emergency Shift every night on one Workshop, as it will keep the Discontent bar hot, but all of it will eventually disappear completely letting you use them indefinitely. If you're running lots of Extended Shifts, too, you'll end up getting warnings, but as long as you don't have too much additional discontent from untreated sick, cold homes, etc., all you have to do is switch off enough Extended Shifts to drop below 75%, pass the test, then switch them right back on. It'll be another few hours before they bother to give you another 2 day ultimatum, yawn.
I also didn't sign a Food Law the whole game. With 125 starting population and 5 starting cores, there just wasn't much of a point. It's more than worth just popping up an extra Hothouse rather than dealing with the extra discontent or sick in Builders, since you have plenty of those to deal with anyway, or should. 2 base Hothouses on Extended Shift with normal rations will feed your starting population with a small surplus, and it goes up from there. You don't need a lot of coal without a generator, so 1 Steam Coal Thumper is plenty for Heaters, Ventilators, and Steel Composites. Also no Automatons before the generator. So basically you should always have enough cores for an extra Hothouse, since the only things you actually need the cores for are Hothouses, Wall Drills, a Machine Shop, and a Foundry, assuming you went Faith for House of Healing.
By day 2 I want my first scout launched. By day 3 I want my second scout launched. Day 4 I want a hothouse built and in use. Day 5 I want the first scout speed upgrade. That's about the best you can get your scouting before the first storm. At that point I focus on ramping up resource production and getting my medical and heating and/or insulation in place for that first storm.
So for me I want 4 medical posts to tide me over until I get House of Healing and I want a steam hub in place to keep all of my tents warm (a single steam hub is enough to keep all of your people warm at night before that first storm).
For laws the order I use is emergency shift, extended shift, child labor, corpse disposal, radical treatment, overcrowding, organ transplants, faith, shrines, house of healing, sawdust meals. The reason for corpse disposal so early is so you can start chaining 24 hour shifts on your workshops to really ramp up your research (and later your steel production).
Once I get past the early stage of the game I keep discontent under control by only doing extended shifts on my workshops, my steel mills, my wall drills, and my hothouses. Everything else gets normal shifts. I alternate 24 hour shifts on my workshops and still mills depending on whether I'm short on steel or not.
My reasoning for such a focus on scouting is that 2 scouts plus that first speed upgrade gives you a good shot at rescuing 3 separate survivor camps and also grabbing around 4 steam cores. That more than doubles your population and gives you a nice batch of steam cores before the first storm.
When the first storm hits my goal is to finish researching ALL of the scouting techs so I have 3 scouts ready with both speed upgrades the instant that storm ends.
If you're playing builder mode then I don't even start trying to build the generator until I have 3 scouts with max speed upgrades, at least 1 advanced steel mill, and at least 1 steam wall drill (or advanced). The generator takes a ton of resources so you want to get your resource production ramped up first.
Building the generator in Builder mode actually puts about as much of a focus on steel as you get playing The Rifts map, and I find that it makes a lot of sense to alternate between chaining 24 hour shifts on a workshop and then the steel mill because early on you're going to constantly be out of steel (especially if you play builder mode rifts).
In builder mode I prefer to build the generator without any defects so I stockpile wood and steel while I tech up the generator techs I need so I can build ventilation, etc and keep my workers in as close to safe conditions as possible to avoid deaths and accidents. You can also upgrade your insulation prior to building the generator so you can have an easier time making it through those storms. Insulation has the nice benefit of being free and always on once you get it.
You don't need to even start the generator til after the 2nd or 3rd storm and you can still complete it without defects before the storms get so cold that a generator is required to prevent deaths. If you're stockpiling resources and ramping up production in preparation for that you should have a significant population, high wood and steel production, and the ability to build all of the components for each stage of the generator at the same time so you can complete each stage in between storms without rushing.
Also you have 3 storms before you really need to complete the generator. Investing in tech and gathering sources and upgrading your housing is a must. 24 hour shifts if you can accept 1 death and know how to manipulate them. (Until Day 50ish is when you want to have the generator almost or fully completed). Put 24 hour shifts when discontent is low or when you can manage it with laws like Patrol for Order or Faith. Basically with 24 hour shifts you get 1 freepass if you do it on a building (example workshop first day) and then do any subsequent ones on piles to gather faster or if you don't want on the Workshop just get the resources 1st day (you can do 3 shifts with no issues) and extended shift for workshop always on until you have researched enough. If you don't do the freebie the next time you do an emergency shift on a building someone will die and is scripted unless you have hope to 100% which will say that morale is too high and people are willing to work but that is hard to happen on Builders if you are pushing people to work. Then the next 24 hour shift someone will complain and insist they work and then you will unlock the extra food rations for emergency shifts which makes all your future emergency shifts deathless (if they aren't freezing to death)
One small tip I can give is prepare all material before starting construction on the gen. This is a trick tip as you don't have to deal with the toxic gases while your people manufacture profiles, steam exchangers etc.
You really can gather enough wood to overproduce Profiles to 100 which will keep you fully capable of pushing safety when you start construction. This also frees 2 safety researches for foundry and Profiles (you can't avoid it with steam exchangers because you want the less cost for manufacturing). You can queue all production even without starting construction and if you see you have people free to work just put them on regular shifts to produce but don't construct focus on your economy, upgrading houses, heaters collecting coal etc.
If you have hazards enabled you really want to invest on Hothouses as well besides Hunter Huts and need to have food keep coming in so your people don't get discontented from lack of food. Sawdust meal is more efficient than Soup in terms of rations and when you can handle it you can swap your cookhouses to normal food.
1 Steam Coal Mine is all you need to collect coal for the start but make sure you keep adding resource depots cause you will need a lot of coal for production. If you have issues with coal you can also invest in at least 1 coal thumper with 4 gathering posts (put children to work they help with this don't try to be utopian use the game mechanics you can to win they can also work hothouses without issues)
You want at least 4 hunter huts to work on gathering food to be able to feed your starter people (and that is with sawdust passed). Don't bother upgrading them before the 1st storm is not worth it.
STEEL is probably your most important culprit to handle after you start handling wood. Invest as soon as you can on the best steel technology and make sure to pile everything when you are full on stockpiles. It really helps on upgrading buildings, houses and manufacturing so much.
Try to keep people in the warmest houses possible. Bunkhouses for first 2 storms (first storm you can do with tents as well) and houses for 3rd one if possible with isolation upgrade.
Make sure you pull everyone OFF WORK (unnasign) except your Workshops with improved heaters they can operate before the 1st storm and do no construction during it. If you don't pull them off work you will end up with a lot of amputees (hunter huts being very prone to that). You should end up with maximum 2 amputees on first storm if all you did was correct. If you have more it means people were working during the storm or were travelling during the storm.
Then it comes to how you want to tackle the issue of your laws. Both Faith and Order have their benefits and merits and issues.
If you want to go Faith
You Have very good handling of Hope (not so much on discontent you need to have all the basic discontent laws passed)
You can build Houses Of Healing for the Sick instead of infirmaries which frees up research (you want to invest on Healthcare Insulation though as it counts up). Anyone can work on houses of healing and also Gravely Sick are treated as well. This also frees up steam cores you can use for more advanced wall drills, coal mines etc.
You want shrines near all your workplaces it increases productivity by 20% in total if all workers are working. You want it near everything healing buildings, research buildings, manufacturing and gathering buildings alike.
Try to not push past Faith Keepers and Temple as this can give you quite a good handling of hope and discontent but not as good as Order.
If you want to go Order
You have immense handling of discontent with guard houses make sure all your people live near one. By just living there discontent drops if you are feeding them and boosting discontent with emergency shifts it takes a day to drop low again and then you are fine. Patrol also is a very good way to manipulate drop of discontent and rise of hope for that extra small boost.
You really want Morning Gatherings, Foreman, Propaganda Centre and Agitators. Propaganda Centre if you keep active you will get some scripted deaths. You just want to pass the law to enable agitators which work a bit like Shrines work with increased productivity on nearby buildings.
2 people per guard post are enough don't put 5.
Foreman with 24 hour shifts is so much efficiency boost is insane. You can produce all material in 2 days for the gen if you handle it correctly and have agitators as well nearby.
Before you start constructing the actual generator try and pass at least 2 Ventilation plants with Efficiency (remember the tip above for stocking coal.. well this is time you need it! Remember you can deconstruct your manufacturing buildings to get the steam cores you need for the ventilation plants. You don't need all manufacturing plants at once
If you produced at least 100 profiles you have enough to do the profiles safety and one ventilation plant. You will need 2 plants and the profiles safety if toxic level is 3. To keep them at least to unhealthy. Timing 24 hour shifts correctly with the construction will just have each stage complete in 1 day if your efficiency is high enough. If you play on Medium is very easy to overmanufacture so if you had researched the construction boost and have extra steam exchangers you can reduce more the construction time by using them.
Don't be scared to overpush people where discontent pushes passed the max and they give you an ultimatum (check with discontent if its within 110-120% is very manageable with patrol, faith keepers, removing all extended shifts on your buildings until it drops and then re-enable them etc).
For construction you will need in total:
8 + 10 + 50 Profiles = Total 68 = Producing 100 allows you to use them as safety as well and make sure you have the safety enchancements on profiles to 2nd tier so they just cost 4 each time you enable them
10 + 50 Steam Exchangers = Total 60 = If you produce more you can use them to boost construction procedure without any issues they don't count as rushed construction. You want to boost if you can the Tower Pump and Core to remove the toxicity level and you can deconstruct then the ventilations to get back steam cores to level up another industry or build new stuff.
25 + 20 Steel Composites = Total 55 = No need to overproduce these.
For Food, If you don't run hazards 2 Industrial Hothouses with all upgrades at the end will be more than enough to handle your food requirements until you finish construction. If you have hazards enabled make sure to have also at least 4 Flying Hunters so you can handle any situation.
Important thing to know is to micromanage you people and work places all the time to keep efficiency to 100 or more where possible. Try to not have people working during the Storms (You can have on certain buildings depending their heat level and how you researched heaters).
If you take into consideration the above you should be able to complete the gen way before the 4th storm hits you probably will be able to start construction between the 2nd and 3rd storm and have it finished even before 3rd storm or midway between 3rd and 4th. If you don't have the gen finished by 4th storm is GG.
Personally I wouldn't go scouting more more than 2 survivor finds (you can learn which spots have survivors) before constructing fully the gen as you will need to handle housing and food and you won't have enough jobs for all of them anyway. You do want to scout for resources and steam cores though as those are very important.
If you have more than 15 amputees and pass a care house law, make sure to always have in stock 100 wood cause an event comes up which increases productivity to your cookhouses by 40%. You only get one chance on this as without the wood you won't be able to get this productivity boost. This productivity boost stays even when you have no amputees. Is like the productivity boost you gain to heal places with Organ Transplants from Snow Pit. People won't be happy at first with it but the boost in healing speed is really worth it for Endless. After you get this boost you can pass Prosthetics and do a factory to put those people back in action.
Don't try to be TOO nice. You can do this with a Nice Run being all Utopian and all but you will struggle in the end. Best to be harder at the start and when everything is done and done automatons can automise the whole city.
If you do this run on Rifts, this is the hardest map to do it on harder difficulties. You really want to expand always first towards the steel deposit otherwise you will reach a standstill with steel. Then as it goes you will see. Each Wood Pile has quite a lot of wood to carry you for at least 2 bridges + extra resources for production and construction. Depending how your coal piles come up you might want to push towards a coal deposit for coal mining before pushing to wall drill.
Well I hope the above have been helpfull and good luck with your runs!
Over night during that first storm I went from having less than 10 total sick people and 1 amputee to being swamped with 50 amputees instantly somewhere between midnight and 5am. That first storm is cold enough that bunkhouses are still freezing. So while in prior playthroughs that first storm was not a big deal without heating, after the latest patch I'm going to have to say you really need the following for that first storm:
1. Houses for everyone (tents and bunkhouses are not good enough with no generator)
2. Infirmaries or House of Healing (I would say a minimum of 4 in some combination)
3. Some combination of 3 levels of insulation and/or heating for those medical facilities.
Without those you'll end up with a huge number of amputees and/or deaths during that first storm.
Endurance mode is easier since you already have the generator and you can easily cover everyone with steam hubs.
I've managed to avoid more than a handful of amputees on Extreme Builders by actually putting everyone to work on Extended Shift. They'll only be freezing from 20:00-5:00 then, which largely avoids amputees. Leave them all day in their Freezing Bunkhouses and the amputees will pile up, though.
You can pull off Advanced Heaters with liberal use of Emergency Shift on Workshops, which will make even a base Sawmill, Gathering Post, etc. Cold, and a base House of Healing Chilly. As long as people are only stuck in their Freezing Bunkhouses after 20:00, they should be ok. Even if you only have Level 2 Heaters, putting people to work in Very Cold is better than waiting in Freezing Bunkhouses.
Past the first few storms, or around day 50-60 the temp goes below what infirmaries / houses of healing / cookhouses are able to be operational even with heaters. So you'd need lots of rations stockpiled for the storm.
And without a generator, everyone will be freezing for the storm duration. If you get lots of amputees, build a factory with prosthetics ready, and ask for more workers/engineers from your allies after the storm.
Ideally, keep your losses low by managing workplaces where the temp is better than freezing (steel mines, gathering posts) so during the day they are not freezing.
If you rush construction with generator faults, it is much easier to get generator up.
Endurance mode lets you start with already built generator.
Probably wasn't extreme. If you were on extreme, with people sitting in tents not working, at the -70 on the first storm, you'll get a lot of amputees. Commuting doesn't seem to significantly change things. Basically if you're freezing, you risk amputation. So staying in a tent at -60 or bunkhouse at -70 all day will get you there. LIke you said, failing to empty your Hunter's Huts if they're freezing will also do it. Building is also risky, as if the building's base temperature is Freezing, they also risk amputation putting it up.
For the storm, your best bet is usually to have everyone possible working in heated buildings on Extended Shift, so that they only return to their cold homes at 20:00. If you have them working in Very Cold some will get Gravely Ill, but no amputees unless it's Freezing. Cold or Chilly is even better, as they only risk normal sickness then.