On the Edge - Automotons

[AMSMPH]

Is anyone else having problem with non-functioning automotons? Mine will complete one task, say tear down a building for wood, once completed they will not move. I have to destroy them and rebuild them. I have all the necessary resources and buildings for them to fuel but it doesn't matter. The work for a bit then they stop, waiting to be destroyed and the cycle to repeat.

[Bobywan]

They should not have put automatons for this scenario as it is confusing.

They can't refuel (no generator) so they will only work one day.... same as endless mode for the The Builder (but at least in this mode, you can eventually use them once the generator is built).

Don't build any for this scenario and don't build the factory either as you should not have amputees if you are careful.

[Jon_Smith]

Agreed, its one of the examples of how sloppy this scenario is, automatons require the generator or steam hub nearby to refuel, since neither of those exist automatons shouldnt exist either.
The factory is a huge waste of time, basically you can make prosthetics.....

[Dickie]

I didn't even realize you could build automatons in this scenario. I saw the automaton techs weren't in the tech tree, so I never even built a factory.

[AMSMPH]

Thank you. I have played it without the automotons and everything is much smoother with more resources to spare.

[erneiz]

Pretty sure there is a bubble warning you about this when you try building automatons.

[Shining Hector]

Seemed like one of the unfinished parts to me, too. Seems like it wouldn't be that hard to either remove them altogether or let them refuel at Braziers.

[Jon_Smith]

Originally posted by erneiz:

Pretty sure there is a bubble warning you about this when you try building automatons.

Yeah a super sloppy popup, the same you get when your automaton can't refuel on a normal map. It tells you to turn on the generator and build steam hubs.

So yeah, popup tells you to turn on the generator, which you don't have. Who was defending OTE as not rushed and sloppy again...?

[erneiz]

No, it's not the same. Read better.

[Jon_Smith]

Originally posted by erneiz:

No, it's not the same. Read better.

It was definitely the same pre patch. Its possibly been changed abit by the patch to help cover the mistake.

Edit: I just double checked, so yeah you get that popup mentioning they are useless when you start constructing one, then if you proceed to build one (as I did in my first run as I thought maybe it triggers some special event otherwise why would they leave them in the scenario) and after it runs out of fuel you get the default popup that says it needs to refuel twice a day and that you should turn on the generator, in a scenario with no generator. Its sloppy.

[General Idea]

Maybe it was deliberately left in on purpose as a red herring? Any good captain would have seen the worthlessness of it for this scenario.

[amordron]

Originally posted by erneiz:

No, it's not the same. Read better.

Right there is a new one when you first build the factory warning you as well as the old one when the auto first loses fuel. So you get two pop ups. These both existed the first hour of the dlc so no it was not added durring the patch. As I made I factory my first run to deal with amps and got said popup.

Adding the popup would of likly took more effort than turning off the autos showing there meant to be there and like that. As obv the people from new London know how to build autos they just can’t be used it’s up to the player to know that based on what we have learned in other maps (arcs is where most people learn autos need the gen). While giving the players warnings when you try to make them and a follow up after.

[Jon_Smith]

Originally posted by General Idea:

Maybe it was deliberately left in on purpose as a red herring? Any good captain would have seen the worthlessness of it for this scenario.

Well I thought the warning was a red herring, in previous scenarios you get contextual popups such as the engineer wanting to improve the automatons or amputees working in cookhouses if you get a bunch of them, boer war doctor improving radical treatment etc.
I figured, if automatons exist on this map when they obviously cannot refuel perhaps I can build one, let it run out of fuel and then I'll get a context popup informing me of a new way to power them or something interesting.
Turns out it was just lazily left in. (So guys I did read properly and expected the quality from before and didnt get it, the popup I mention referencing the generator does still exist and isnt appropriate for OTE).

Originally posted by amordron:

Adding the popup would of likly took more effort than turning off the autos showing there meant to be there and like that. As obv the people from new London know how to build autos they just can’t be used it’s up to the player to know that based on what we have learned in other maps (arcs is where most people learn autos need the gen). While giving the players warnings when you try to make them and a follow up after.

So you say they spent more effort making the popup rather than taking the auto's out? It was some deliberate design choice? That would be as stupid as leaving hothouses available but once you build them getting the frozen ground thing stopping production. Its clutter left in because they were sloppy on this DLC as evidenced by the popup telling you turn a generator on which you don't have. If they spent time deliberately adding them they would have corrected the popup aswell.

Besides that, leaving redundant mechanics from other game modes and expecting players to filter out which ones actually work on that map is the height of lazy design and clearly doesnt work as evidenced by this very topic. They should remove them in a further patch.

[amordron]

The popup Ernis was talking about is not the one telling you to turn the gen on where talking about the one that appears when you build the factory that tells you auto will not work due to not having a generator that is exclusively used in on the edge.

It takes more effort to code a new pop up with conditions than just add autos to the many other items not included in on the edge. So yes it was intentfully done.

Is it sloppy that’s debatable as it makes sense why they did it and thematically it works. Do I personally like that they did it that way, no and its one of the many issues I have with the map but none the less there it was done intentionally or there would be no reason what so ever to make a new popup that has been there since the first hour it was out.

I disagree about it being bad design to leave in items that don’t work in a direct sequel. If I had tech in the first one I should have it in the next in fact this is one of the complained about things from the dlc the amount they removed. I should vary well of been able to make hunters only to get a red indicator that there is no animals to hunt ideally with red text before building as a warning. Or even better have hunters working fine for a day or two than bringing back half with a popup for a bad hunt than worse for a week till you no longer find anything. There is been many games I have played in the past that make the player do so you needing to pick the buildings to use based on the situation some just being worse at times other times just not working but there still your buildings and tech to build. It is bad Design thou to remove every single case but autos than not remove autos. If your going to start with one way should stick to it.

The 2nd popup telling you to turn the gen on is sloppy that they dint change it thou esp after they added a new one warning you to show it was intentionally that way. Shows they dint bother to play test making one to see the functionality of that area.

[Jon_Smith]

Originally posted by amordron:

The popup Ernis was talking about is not the one telling you to turn the gen on where talking about the one that appears when you build the factory that tells you auto will not work due to not having a generator that is exclusively used in on the edge.

Yes, we all know, I pointed this out myself already above.You are adding zero by repeating what I already said.

Originally posted by amordron:

It takes more effort to code a new pop up with conditions than just add autos to the many other items not included in on the edge. So yes it was intentfully done.

That is a huge assumption, I'm a developer myself and I can tell you coding a new popup is probably way simpler. Here is why, loads of buildings can trigger popups already, for example 'you used a steam core' so there are building completed triggers that are easy to hook onto, popups are already something that exists. That means its highly likely adding new popups is stuff already pre built you just need to pop in.
Factories however are a type of building with multiple things you can construct, ok nothing new so far, however one of the items is only unlocked via an optional law. By default the only thing available in the factory is automatons. This means if automatons were removed then you could build the factory but not be able to select anything to manufacture. Now this is new territory as we don't have any buildings like that. We have buildings that can can be unable to function due to cold or random events (like automatons getting stuck) but not this. So new coding would be required to handle the factory state of being built but unable to manufacture anything.
Can you see how creating a new instance of the popup class is waaaay easier than trying to rework the factories underlying code and create new functionality that hasn't existed before?
I am obviously making some assumptions myself too, but this are informed assumptions. Feel free to explain why you think a popup is so hard to copy and paste? Are you also a coder?

Originally posted by amordron:

Is it sloppy that’s debatable as it makes sense why they did it and thematically it works. Do I personally like that they did it that way, no and its one of the many issues I have with the map but none the less there it was done intentionally or there would be no reason what so ever to make a new popup that has been there since the first hour it was out.

My point above debunks this, the popup is the quick and lazy way to fix it by retaining the factory as is but not removing automatons as that is complicated. You again assume its intentional game design when infact its more likely that its an artifact from re-using assets.

Originally posted by amordron:

I disagree about it being bad design to leave in items that don’t work in a direct sequel. If I had tech in the first one I should have it in the next in fact this is one of the complained about things from the dlc the amount they removed. I should vary well of been able to make hunters only to get a red indicator that there is no animals to hunt ideally with red text before building as a warning. Or even better have hunters working fine for a day or two than bringing back half with a popup for a bad hunt than worse for a week till you no longer find anything. There is been many games I have played in the past that make the player do so you needing to pick the buildings to use based on the situation some just being worse at times other times just not working but there still your buildings and tech to build. It is bad Design thou to remove every single case but autos than not remove autos. If your going to start with one way should stick to it.

The 2nd popup telling you to turn the gen on is sloppy that they dint change it thou esp after they added a new one warning you to show it was intentionally that way. Shows they dint bother to play test making one to see the functionality of that area.

I mean, in my opinion, you unintentionally hammer home my point here by demonstrating how its applied completely inconsistently, hunters huts are removed due to game lore saying there are no animals aswell as hothouses because the ground is too frozen. These are removed. Automatons cannot be used because there is no generator, these aren't removed. This is the only instance in the game where they do this. In all other scenarios when a building or research cannot be used it is removed (like the Hunters huts in Arks).
The argument of if the useless buildings should be left in is moot because if they are subscribing to that idea then by not including the other buildings then its bad design as it contradicts that idea in the same scenario.

[General Idea]

Jon_Smith I'm sure you were experimenting and I'm glad that you were able to figure things out in the end. Thanks for the info though it was interesting.